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Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of analysis

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Thought experiment. How to go about creating an honest news disseminating organization recognizable as credible?
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here's how i do it using the existing system :

do a blank search using google news. this brings up the top stories of the day from a wide variety of sources. any perceived bias is mediated by dilution. then it's up to the reader to do the research, and it's exceptionally easy to do so.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

rocket88 said:
You propose a political test for media people. That's ludicrous. So a competent, qualified person could not get a job because they "don't need any more liberals (or conservatives)? What if the reporter on question is an independent? No job for them?
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As I said in the first sentence of my first post on this thread:

For TV news, instead of one news director calling the shots, you have co-news directors who balance the content.​

You know, the actual ones who decide what stories will, or will not make the broadcast and have the final say so on content?

All reporters have some level of bias, which is why I proposed what I did. As you said, you can't impose a political test on the people responsible for gathering the news, but you can have an editing team that reviews that news to make sure it's presented fairly and accurately to the public. If a news organisation imposed my idea, before long the reporters, journalists and news anchors there would have a much better understanding of how to report the news fairly, with a balanced perspective and free from political and social bias.

If you have a better idea of how to create a news organisation that's fair, accurate and free from bias, then I'd like to hear it.

.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Helix said:
here's how i do it using the existing system :

do a blank search using google news. this brings up the top stories of the day from a wide variety of sources. any perceived bias is mediated by dilution. then it's up to the reader to do the research, and it's exceptionally easy to do so.
Click to expand...

Which implies that the reader is intelligent and scrupulous enough to do it, which means, there is no need for such a reader to deviate from any of the current MSM outlets. He is the key to all of this and that key works fine in America as long as it is continuously applied.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Bobbaker said:
Which implies that the reader is intelligent and scrupulous enough to do it, which means, there is no need for such a reader to deviate from any of the current MSM outlets. He is the key to all of this and that key works fine in America as long as it is continuously applied.
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many if not most of consumers of news will gravitate to sources which confirm their biases. however, if someone actually wants unbiased reporting, the method i suggested is the best way to get there, IMO.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Grim17 said:
As I said in the first sentence of my first post on this thread:

For TV news, instead of one news director calling the shots, you have co-news directors who balance the content.​

You know, the actual ones who decide what stories will, or will not make the broadcast and have the final say so on content?

All reporters have some level of bias, which is why I proposed what I did. As you said, you can't impose a political test on the people responsible for gathering the news, but you can have an editing team that reviews that news to make sure it's presented fairly and accurately to the public. If a news organisation imposed my idea, before long the reporters, journalists and news anchors there would have a much better understanding of how to report the news fairly, with a balanced perspective and free from political and social bias.

If you have a better idea of how to create a news organisation that's fair, accurate and free from bias, then I'd like to hear it.

.
Click to expand...

Have it run by robots. People have biases. It's part of why we have the First Amendment.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

rocket88 said:
Have it run by robots. People have biases. It's part of why we have the First Amendment.
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Sure, sure. Have SkyNet run all of the media. Fantastic plan. Couldn't possibly backfire! :)
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Deuce said:
Sure, sure. Have SkyNet run all of the media. Fantastic plan. Couldn't possibly backfire! :)
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Your sarcasm detector is broken.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

calamity said:
Public Radio only appears lefty-biased because they always delve into the nuance of a problem instead of ramming out talking points and slogans. People prefer taking points and slogans though.
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Hardly.

No, Public Radio appear left biased because the problems they come up with are those that the left think are problems and their solutions tend to be left leaning solutions. And its often unchallenged. Right talk radio is usually a call in type show which allows people to call in and offer opposing views, which is very good, and to argue in favor of their view.

To be unaware that many sides may be nuanced is to be rather biased to start.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Hardly.

No, Public Radio appear left biased because the problems they come up with are those that the left think are problems and their solutions tend to be left leaning solutions. And its often unchallenged. Right talk radio is usually a call in type show which allows people to call in and offer opposing views, which is very good, and to argue in favor of their view.

To be unaware that many sides may be nuanced is to be rather biased to start.
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lol...RW call-in shows are not exactly debate shows. It's a loudmouth host mocking liberals and shouting down anyone who dares call in to say something to the contrary, and that's after screening for the dumbest person they can find.

NPR is pretty good. They provide food for thought. The programs usually lay out the situation and explain the problems in detail, letting you think for yourself, instead of relying on an entertainer to tell you what to think.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Helix said:
here's how i do it using the existing system :

do a blank search using google news. this brings up the top stories of the day from a wide variety of sources. any perceived bias is mediated by dilution. then it's up to the reader to do the research, and it's exceptionally easy to do so.
Click to expand...
That sounded, upon first blush, a good idea... although it was not actually addressing the OP in that the experiment is to create a gold standard site and not to put one on the path of what a credible seeker of news may do or not.

But it did seem a good idea for an individual to go about arriving at information pertinent to the topic one is interested.

However, upon thinking about it a bit more, and recollecting a potential questionable practice surfacing sometime back with google searches and google agreeing to censor in China, BBC NEWS | Technology | Google censors itself for China I decided to look into possible bias by google into searches performed and was actually rather surprised.


Why Google search results favor Democrats.

Google defends its search engine against charges it favors Clinton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_neutrality

Harvard PhD Explains How Google Search Bias Could "Shift 3 Million Votes" In Upcoming Election | Zero Hedge

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/14/g...gestions-for-hillary-clinton-new-study-shows/

The video on youtube originally alerting, and referenced in several of the articles, to the potential bias seems to have been taken down at youtube:



Here is the link to the SourceFed video which, unfortunately my signal down here in the mountains of Panama is so weak I have not been able to load/play it yet but will continue to attempt it as I would like to see what they have to say.

https://www.facebook.com/SourceFedNews/videos/vb.322741577776002/1199514293432055/?type=2&theater


Interestingly, when I looked at the Snopes claim by Trump accusing Google of search bias, it seems to come to no conclusion, just issues the denial by Google and offers and explanation on how its system works. Well, of course... they could not be actually biased, could they?

However, I decided to search further onsite and did find this by Snopes http://www.snopes.com/google-manipulate-hillary-clinton/ which possibly better answers the question. I am undecided as I cannot get the autocomplete function to even work as it just, simply, will not autocomplete when I make the attempt.

So, I will leave it for others and up to others as to how they view searches on google as you suggest.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

calamity said:
lol...RW call-in shows are not exactly debate shows. It's a loudmouth host mocking liberals and shouting down anyone who dares call in to say something to the contrary, and that's after screening for the dumbest person they can find.

NPR is pretty good. They provide food for thought. The programs usually lay out the situation and explain the problems in detail, letting you think for yourself, instead of relying on an entertainer to tell you what to think.
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Exactly.

At least exactly how I would expect someone biased from the left to see the entire situation. Confirmed bias.

You see, I think we should be presenting many sides, not just one that provides left guided "food for thought". And although some RW radio show hosts probably do overpower their callers, at least they allow them some, however small, voice in the matter. Certainly could be improved upon, but you would rather the show just lead you to your "choices" it seems.

Such spoon feeding is meant for toddlers, don't you think? Food for thought, right?
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Exactly.

At least exactly how I would expect someone biased from the left to see the entire situation. Confirmed bias.

You see, I think we should be presenting many sides, not just one that provides left guided "food for thought". And although some RW radio show hosts probably do overpower their callers, at least they allow them some, however small, voice in the matter. Certainly could be improved upon, but you would rather the show just lead you to your "choices" it seems.

Such spoon feeding is meant for toddlers, don't you think? Food for thought, right?
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Uh, laying out the situation and pointing to the various things affected by the matter is called relaying information. That's NPR. The crap on RW talk is propaganda and partisan hackery. It gives anyone with an IQ over 120 a headache.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

calamity said:
Uh, laying out the situation and pointing to the various things affected by the matter is called relaying information. That's NPR. The crap on RW talk is propaganda and partisan hackery. It gives anyone with an IQ over 120 a headache.
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Well, as what appears obvious here, the left wing side certainly has no reason to be reaching for their aspirin in that case.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
That sounded, upon first blush, a good idea... although it was not actually addressing the OP in that the experiment is to create a gold standard site and not to put one on the path of what a credible seeker of news may do or not.

But it did seem a good idea for an individual to go about arriving at information pertinent to the topic one is interested.

However, upon thinking about it a bit more, and recollecting a potential questionable practice surfacing sometime back with google searches and google agreeing to censor in China, BBC NEWS | Technology | Google censors itself for China I decided to look into possible bias by google into searches performed and was actually rather surprised.


Why Google search results favor Democrats.

Google defends its search engine against charges it favors Clinton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_neutrality

Harvard PhD Explains How Google Search Bias Could "Shift 3 Million Votes" In Upcoming Election | Zero Hedge

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/14/g...gestions-for-hillary-clinton-new-study-shows/

The video on youtube originally alerting, and referenced in several of the articles, to the potential bias seems to have been taken down at youtube:



Here is the link to the SourceFed video which, unfortunately my signal down here in the mountains of Panama is so weak I have not been able to load/play it yet but will continue to attempt it as I would like to see what they have to say.

https://www.facebook.com/SourceFedNews/videos/vb.322741577776002/1199514293432055/?type=2&theater


Interestingly, when I looked at the Snopes claim by Trump accusing Google of search bias, it seems to come to no conclusion, just issues the denial by Google and offers and explanation on how its system works. Well, of course... they could not be actually biased, could they?

However, I decided to search further onsite and did find this by Snopes http://www.snopes.com/google-manipulate-hillary-clinton/ which possibly better answers the question. I am undecided as I cannot get the autocomplete function to even work as it just, simply, will not autocomplete when I make the attempt.

So, I will leave it for others and up to others as to how they view searches on google as you suggest.
Click to expand...


a blank google search often brings up Fox entertainment news results as well as MSDNC even though i seldom click on those links. i've found that it gives me the full spectrum of bias so that i can decide for myself what the real story looks like.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Helix said:
a blank google search often brings up Fox entertainment news results as well as MSDNC even though i seldom click on those links. i've found that it gives me the full spectrum of bias so that i can decide for myself what the real story looks like.
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Again, how does that comply with the question in the OP? Its geared towards an attempt to create a golden standard news site.

Secondly, if Google is bending the pathways in directions that they feel are the correct ones, rather than just straight search of the most pertinent relative to the identifiers chosen as the search parameters, you don't think that is a problem?
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Again, how does that comply with the question in the OP? Its geared towards an attempt to create a golden standard news site.
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closest thing other than google is CSPAN, i guess. i would still argue that a blank google news search is about as close as we're going to get to unbiased.

Gaugingcatenate said:
Secondly, if Google is bending the pathways in directions that they feel are the correct ones, rather than just straight search of the most pertinent relative to the identifiers chosen as the search parameters, you don't think that is a problem?
Click to expand...

as i said, a blank google news search gives me each story from pretty much every angle. you aren't going to get a news channel that is completely, perfectly unbiased because there's no money in it. there's no money in it because those of us who want such a thing are too few, and those who want their confirmation bias stroked are too many. in that dynamic, i'll take what i can get.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Helix said:
closest thing other than google is CSPAN, i guess. i would still argue that a blank google news search is about as close as we're going to get to unbiased.



as i said, a blank google news search gives me each story from pretty much every angle. you aren't going to get a news channel that is completely, perfectly unbiased because there's no money in it. there's no money in it because those of us who want such a thing are too few, and those who want their confirmation bias stroked are too many. in that dynamic, i'll take what i can get.
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I completely disagree.

I am not willing, nor wanting, to be directed, in which ever way Google desires I be directed, in a hope that this will possibly arrive at the correct every angle. I am pessimistic about Google... did you read any of the material supplied?

I am not as pessimistic about the American people, however. I think enough folks discounted/tossed what the current major news sources were trying to pass off as news and instead voted for Trump anyhow. That is a rather large segment/potential market for more truthful news sources.

And I would think, if a, say Wikipedia, can amply fund itself ongoing, as its seems to have done so fairly competently, then your view that those of us who want a less biased news source and will settle for our confirmation biases is not correct and even less optimistic.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
I completely disagree.

I am not willing, nor wanting, to be directed, in which ever way Google desires I be directed, in a hope that this will possibly arrive at the correct every angle. I am pessimistic about Google... did you read any of the material supplied?

I am not as pessimistic about the American people, however. I think enough folks discounted/tossed what the current major news sources were trying to pass off as news and instead voted for Trump anyhow. That is a rather large segment/potential market for more truthful news sources.

And I would think, if a, say Wikipedia, can amply fund itself ongoing, as its seems to have done so fairly competently, then your view that those of us who want a less biased news source and will settle for our confirmation biases is not correct and even less optimistic.
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that's the way it is, though. confirmation bias sells, which is why everyone is doing it. would i like a completely unbiased news source? sure. is that going to happen? probably not. will i use the existing infrastructure to piece together my own less biased news source? yes. and that's what i do when i read the news each day.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Helix said:
that's the way it is, though. confirmation bias sells, which is why everyone is doing it. would i like a completely unbiased news source? sure. is that going to happen? probably not. will i use the existing infrastructure to piece together my own less biased news source? yes. and that's what i do when i read the news each day.
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Again, I disagree.

While I understand what you are saying, as you well know the "everyone is doing it" is not a sufficiently valid argument to do much of anything. Every populated continent was doing slavery at one time, didn't mean we could not overcome that which is, inherently, the lesser path to travel.

Societal improvement in the US is a valid goal. Having credible news sources, having reliable information and choices from which to make an ultimate decision on the great matters before us is an admirable goal.

Continuing to cater to confirmation bias is not, to my mind.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Well, as what appears obvious here, the left wing side certainly has no reason to be reaching for their aspirin in that case.
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lol...that must be why the people living in our nation's smarter states are 70% Democrat.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Again, I disagree.

While I understand what you are saying, as you well know the "everyone is doing it" is not a sufficiently valid argument to do much of anything. Every populated continent was doing slavery at one time, didn't mean we could not overcome that which is, inherently, the lesser path to travel.

Societal improvement in the US is a valid goal. Having credible news sources, having reliable information and choices from which to make an ultimate decision on the great matters before us is an admirable goal.

Continuing to cater to confirmation bias is not, to my mind.
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so how do we eliminate confirmation bias entertainment "news" within the bounds of the first amendment?
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

calamity said:
lol...that must be why the people living in our nation's smarter states are 70% Democrat.
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Yep, keep telling yourself that... but 30 out of 50 states went Trump. 30 out of 50 governorships are Republican, 68 out of 99 state legislatures are Republican, the White House in January will be Republican, both national houses are Republican. With one more Supreme Court pick after his first Trump will be able to have a conservative leaning SCOTUS bench. How smart does that make Democrats sound?

Btw, States aren't smart, individuals people in states are smart. How one determines true intelligence, prudence, pragmatism and common sense is, apparently, over Democrats heads.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Helix said:
so how do we eliminate confirmation bias entertainment "news" within the bounds of the first amendment?
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Who said anything about eliminating anything???

Many, as you have amply indicated, want such. And under the first amendment it is certainly allowed, so it will be here as long as there is a market for it... or in the case of an NPR, as long as government assists private donations in funding it.

There should competitively be other, more practical alternatives and I think, and [knock on wood] would hope, many people would begin to see who/what is actually giving them credible, dependable and actionable news information... and see the sense/practicality/benefit of that.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Captain Adverse said:
IMO?

We need to do nothing except realize that ALL news is essentially gossip. That as nosy creatures we want to know all the latest about everyone else; while hoping our dirty laundry remains secret.

In this new era of instant media access via the interwoven web of internet/television/radio/news papers/social media, anyone can be an on-the-spot source and we are no longer fully dependent on sources controlled by News Agencies.

That means there is even less recourse to a code of ethics in reporting since it is either completely driven by advertising revenue and "hits" on these sites sells advertising, or by a desire for personal fame and profit as the "man-on-the-street" who broke the news.

If you keep this in mind, then the next step is to automatically take anything you hear, read, or see in a media presentation no matter how trusted the source with a healthy dose of salt.

Don't depend on any single source for your news. Diversify your sources, and fact check whenever you can on your own.

That's the best advice one can offer. Hoping to encourage regulation either external or self-imposed is a forlorn hope. :coffeepap:
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And excellent advice it is too Captain. Diversity is the key word. Though multiple independent sources are difficult to achieve as hacks hunt in packs. There is a reluctance to step outside 'the story' and to depart from the consensus.
 
Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Who said anything about eliminating anything???

Many, as you have amply indicated, want such. And under the first amendment it is certainly allowed, so it will be here as long as there is a market for it... or in the case of an NPR, as long as government assists private donations in funding it.

There should competitively be other, more practical alternatives and I think, and [knock on wood] would hope, many people would begin to see who/what is actually giving them credible, dependable and actionable news information... and see the sense/practicality/benefit of that.
Click to expand...

but is there a market for it, aside from you and me? my guess is that most would pick confirmation bias. i would like to think that some would prefer an unbiased source of news.
 
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