• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Democracy is Dead in the USA

the U.S. needs to return to its foundation which is a Classical Republic based on the Roman Republic of "Mixed Government" which the constitution created, but has since been changed by the 17th amenmdnet.
 
jimbo said:
While recognizing that the US is not a democracy. I get your point, but I think your reasons are wrong. Democracy (in the US) is not dead. It's just incompetent. None of those situations would happen if we had a truly informed and caring electorate. It is the democratic vote that elects those who do the things to which you object.
Click to expand...

I did not actually say "the US was a democracy". Gov't by "We the People" is a democratic principle. "We the people" no longer have control.

You are completely correct that ignorance is a big part of the problem. One of the main reasons for this "lack of being informed" is because of the massive propaganda effort which includes the mainstream media.

A previous poster said. "People still have the power to vote" which is similar to what you stated.

My response was:

What power does a vote have when the voter is brainwashed ? It is standard fair that an uneducated (in certain areas) and ignorant populace does not make for a functional democracy.

If Red and Blue are the same (with respect to the issues addressed in my post) ... both establishment puppets who do what Big Money wants in a pay to play system.

and, the power to vote is limited (for all intensive and realistic purposes) to Red or Blue. What power is this ?

The power to choose whether you get Sodomized by Big Bob or Big Jim ? That is a rather powerless situation don't you think ?
Click to expand...
 
legalimmigrant said:
I don't see any problem with that as long as your opponent is an entitled woman who needs a little extra to even out the playing field.
Click to expand...

Ha, I'll take that as sarcasm..

legalimmigrant said:
Plus, if she is a democrap crook under a criminal investigation by the FBI, your guy should have walked into the ring with a hidden .44 magnum or at least a switchblade.
Click to expand...

No, that means she starts with a broken arm..
 
Master PO said:
the U.S. needs to return to its foundation which is a Classical Republic based on the Roman Republic of "Mixed Government" which the constitution created, but has since been changed by the 17th amenmdnet.
Click to expand...

We need to go back to the principles on which this nation was founded.

Individual rights and freedoms/liberty "Above" the legitimate authority of Gov't = Gov't not supposed to be making any laws that mess with these freedoms unless it gets consent of an "Overwhelming majority/Supermajority".
 
Tigerace117 said:
Do you mean "brass knuckles"?

Is it really that hard to conceive the concept that the majority of the American people don't agree with you, or, more specifically, your candidates' idiotic behavior?
Click to expand...

Yeah.. People that support hillary, to my understanding, are either ignorant, sick in the head, or have some ulterior motive other than what is best for the country..
 
thinkagain said:
We need to go back to the principles on which this nation was founded.

Individual rights and freedoms/liberty "Above" the legitimate authority of Gov't = Gov't not supposed to be making any laws that mess with these freedoms unless it gets consent of an "Overwhelming majority/Supermajority".
Click to expand...

this is true, however by returning to a "Mixed government" the state governments regain their former powers inside the the federal government by controlling the senate, this prevents the federal government from making laws stepping outside of its delegated powers into state powers.
 
thinkagain said:
I did not actually say "the US was a democracy". Gov't by "We the People" is a democratic principle. "We the people" no longer have control.

You are completely correct that ignorance is a big part of the problem.
Click to expand...

BTW, great posts!

The problem is that most good people are busy as hell making a living and taking care of their kids. That is why in a " representative republic", it is essential that the elected reps be moral statesmen, not the corrupt crooks you have today somebody has to watch day and night. As they say, chararter is what you do when nobody is watching. Wikileaks would not be needed in a country where the government is not the worst enemy of the governed.

That day-and-night watchdog used to be the American press. That is why the ruling elites castrated them promptly and made them into harmless lapdogs.
 
Master PO said:
this is true, however by returning to a "Mixed government" the state governments regain their former powers inside the the federal government by controlling the senate, this prevents the federal government from making laws stepping outside of its delegated powers into state powers.
Click to expand...

As in "citizen politicians" rather than a "pprofessional political class"?
 
Master PO said:
this is true, however by returning to a "Mixed government" the state governments regain their former powers inside the the federal government by controlling the senate, this prevents the federal government from making laws stepping outside of its delegated powers into state powers.
Click to expand...

I agree that the States should have power but, be under the exact same limitations in relation to making laws that mess with individual liberty.

This does not really comment on the OP though. The idea that the various Gov't departments and mainstream media are a well funded propaganda machine whose purpose is to engineer consent for the continued enslavement of the citizens.
 
chuckiechan said:
As in "citizen politicians" rather than a "pprofessional political class"?
Click to expand...

the senate was created to be in the hands of the state legislatures as to be the "Guardian of the Constitution", this is how the state governments protected their state powers from federal government usurpation and was a check on federal power.
 
thinkagain said:
I agree that the States should have power but, be under the exact same limitations in relation to making laws that mess with individual liberty.

This does not really comment on the OP though. The idea that the various Gov't departments and mainstream media are a well funded propaganda machine whose purpose is to engineer consent for the continued enslavement of the citizens.
Click to expand...

there once were under limitations when it was controlled by the states.


All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

the senate was barred from making any laws which raises revenue because only the house which is of the people can spend the money of the people.
 
legalimmigrant said:
BTW, great posts!

The problem is that most good people are busy as hell making a living and taking care of their kids. That is why in a " representative republic", it is essential that the elected reps be moral statesmen, not the corrupt crooks you have today somebody has to watch day and night. As they say, chararter is what you do when nobody is watching. Wikileaks would not be needed in a country where the government is not the worst enemy of the governed.

That day-and-night watchdog used to be the American press. That is why the ruling elites castrated them promptly and made them into harmless lapdogs.
Click to expand...

Lack of fair and free media is a huge problem .. one recognized by every political thinker. It is one of the bedrock requirements of functional democratic republic.

The second problem is education. 12 years of school and kids are not taught the basics of Philosophy (logic, logical fallacy, what constitutes a valid argument) and the basics principles on which this nation was founded (Limited Gov't, Legitimacy of Authority, Individual liberty "above" the legitimate authority of Gov't, Rule of Law and so on)

Without these basics .. now is the average Joe supposed to be able to wade through the daily cacophony of fallacy and bad argument thrust on them by Politicians and the mainstream media.

Everyone says they want Limited Gov't .... Great ! Then the are stumped by the next question "Limited to What" ?

If one do not know what the legitimate authority of Gov't is ... how the heck will someone know if the Gov't is stepping outside it's legitimate authority ?

12 years of school and the very basics are not taught. This is intentional :) Ignorant sheep are more easy to control.
 
Orly? said:
Yeah.. People that support hillary, to my understanding, are either ignorant, sick in the head, or have some ulterior motive other than what is best for the country..
Click to expand...

That's funny, because a lot of trump supporters fall into those categories too. Hmm.....
 
Tigerace117 said:
That's funny, because a lot of trump supporters fall into those categories too. Hmm.....
Click to expand...

Sure many are ignorant or retarded whatever.. But most of them are actually doing the right things for the right reasons..
 
Master PO said:
there once were under limitations when it was controlled by the states.


All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

the senate was barred from making any laws which raises revenue because only the house which is of the people can spend the money of the people.
Click to expand...

That was a long time ago ...

Gov't (be it Federal, State, Municipal) is supposed to be barred from making any laws outside the legitimate purview.

The Powers of Gov't are supposed to be very limited and are to extend only to what was granted to it via the Social Contract (we the people). The Gov't was given powers for protection of direct harm... one person on another - the power to punish people who would cause harm to another (murder, rape, theft and so on ... direct harm though)

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-8
Click to expand...

If the Gov't wants to make a law outside it's purview it must appeal to "we the people". If it is a law that messes with individual liberty the bar is "Overwhelming majority/Supermajority" .... not 50+1 as this would allow some group to mess with individual liberty which was termed "Tyranny of the Majority" which is a fundamental principle of "Republicanism".
 
Orly? said:
Sure many are ignorant or retarded whatever.. But most of them are actually doing the right things for the right reasons..
Click to expand...

So supporting somebody who has insulted POWs is "doing the right thing"?

Not in my view.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
I don't think we're on the same page. I don't even think we're on the same chapter.
Click to expand...

It's an abstract designed to get you think about your "definition".

Now, which one is correct: are they "firearms" or "guns"?
 
Tigerace117 said:
So supporting somebody who has insulted POWs is "doing the right thing"?

Not in my view.
Click to expand...

So does being a POW make you a saint impervious to insults? I bet you we have POWs in prison..

Your logic does not follow..
 
Orly? said:
So does being a POW make you a saint impervious to insults? I bet you we have POWs in prison..

Your logic does not follow..
Click to expand...

Somebody who dodged the draft doesn't get to insult somebody who fought honorably for his country and spent months in a horrific prison camp.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Somebody who dodged the draft doesn't get to insult somebody who fought honorably for his country and spent months in a horrific prison camp.
Click to expand...

Sure they do.. Just another fine example of trump winning..
 
Orly? said:
Sure they do.. Just another fine example of trump winning..
Click to expand...

How exactly did Trump win anything? That stunt lost him plenty of votes. Not to mention it aptly demonstrates what kind of person he is--- a pathetic loser who talks tough but has never actually had to put himself in any risk or put his life on the line for anybody else.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Somebody who dodged the draft doesn't get to insult somebody who fought honorably for his country and spent months in a horrific prison camp.
Click to expand...

Draft- if trump got out of it, more power to him, just like his taxes..

POW- please, I'm sure their have been hundreds of thousands of POWs throuought history worthy of insults for some reason or another.. Just because someone was a POW means squat.. Bet it feels good on your feelers to thing that though doesn't it?

Wait.. What about racist POWs? We have ourselvs here a nom vet pow and he doesn't like blacks.. What then? Does he get a get out of SJW free card?

Just because it is a ford does not mean it is a good truck, it may not even be a truck..
 
Tigerace117 said:
How exactly did Trump win anything? That stunt lost him plenty of votes.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.... lets see... Some votes VS drafted and likely killed.. Hmmm... Hard decision..

Not killed = win
A lot of poor souls did not win..
 
Tigerace117 said:
a pathetic loser who talks tough but has never actually had to put himself in any risk or put his life on the line for anybody else.
Click to expand...

Have you? How about your mom? Put your life on the line in combat? Eh?

Does that make your mom a pathetic loser?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom