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Gun Saves 3 Peoples Lives-Will Media Cover It?

TurtleDude said:
Hey, if Obama had a son, he might look like the mope killed? the last thing Bannite politicians want is people taking responsibility for their own safety rather than ceding their rights to big brother
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Yep....branded as a vigilante.
 
truthatallcost said:
A family being held hostage by a suspected murderer fatally shot him Thursday morning
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Good for them. I just had to laugh at the wording though, picturing a family of three clumsily trying to all pull the trigger at the same time.
 
if guns were banned, this gentle giant would not have had to die. RIP Rafael McCloud, a loving son, an inspiration to us all. hopefully the 3 brutal thugs who took his life will be charged with hate crimes.
 
I witnessed an armed robbery once where robbers had discharge firearms at equipment in an establishment. The manager had a gun, shot one of the guys and they both ran away. That gun saved about 10-15 lives had the robbers continued shooting.

But this kinda stuff doesn't fit with a liberal agenda. The media coverage has gotten so bad that many around the world view America as this haven for gun violence where there are no safe places... Which is completely wrong.
 
Thread: Gun Saves 3 Peoples Lives-Will Media Cover It?

Just a quibble here- If guns don't kill people, they don't save people either. It's the person with the gun who saved people.
 
Grand Mal said:
Thread: Gun Saves 3 Peoples Lives-Will Media Cover It?

Just a quibble here- If guns don't kill people, they don't save people either. It's the person with the gun who saved people.
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Good point. The headline should read "Ownership and use of firearm allows family to stop a deadly predator who had previously beaten, raped, and murdered a 69 year old woman"
 
digsbe said:
I witnessed an armed robbery once where robbers had discharge firearms at equipment in an establishment. The manager had a gun, shot one of the guys and they both ran away. That gun saved about 10-15 lives had the robbers continued shooting.

But this kinda stuff doesn't fit with a liberal agenda. The media coverage has gotten so bad that many around the world view America as this haven for gun violence where there are no safe places... Which is completely wrong.
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there is no doubt in instances such as the one you experienced and the one cited within the OP that guns have proven to be lifesaving

but neither should there be any doubt that they also represent the cause of 88 fatalities (on average) each day of the year within the USA

you are a member of the medical industry. a place where human life is so valued that you and those like you have dedicated huge portions of your lives and assets to be able to preserve such life. which is something that puzzles me when i see you advocating for unregulated guns responsible for the loss of 88 lives each day
 
truthatallcost said:
Tell me how to remove guns from the hands of criminals.
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Destroy the ones rounded up by cops and go after the black market the way they did the American mafia.
 
VanceMack said:
Good point. The headline should read "Ownership and use of firearm allows family to stop a deadly predator who had previously beaten, raped, and murdered a 69 year old woman"
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I didn't have enough characters for all that.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Your first mistake is comparing America to Mexico. Go live in a third-world country for a while, and you'll find out why the cops in such places have nowhere near the level of trust that they do here.

Your second mistake is comparing gun culture to drug culture. Yeah, there would be a lot of people trying to make a buck smuggling guns...but there's already a lot of people trying to make money that way. Thing is, we can't force all manufactured drugs to be registered with the government...but we CAN require all firearms manufactured in the US (except for 3D printed of course, but that's still a very rare thing) to be registered...and when the firearms are registered, it becomes a heck of a lot easier to track down who's doing the smuggling.

Your third mistake is assuming that this is all about taking guns away from people - it's not. I was raised in the Deep South, which meant I was raised around guns, and I got my quals and ribbons in the military along the way - I'm all for law-abiding citizens having firearms. But there's no good reason to not require the same level of registration and responsibility for firearms as for vehicles. Yeah, yeah, I know, the 2A and all that...but if you want to keep firearms out of the hands of violent felons, rapists, psychopaths, and terrorists, this is what ya gotta do. Otherwise, we'll continue to have by far the highest homicide rate in the developed world.
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I think we've ignored a vital question: Why does gun violence seem so common today when it didn't in the past? What exactly is causing people to come unhinged and pick up a gun?

My grandparents generation didn't live with constant stories of spree killers, gang shootings, and terrorism. In only 2 generations since that time, we've become a vastly more violent society, despite becoming way more liberal than my grandparents generation was. What went wrong?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The media did cover it...but how's that three lives saved compare to the dozens of other innocents killed on any innocent day by gunfire?
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Yeah, what we need are gun laws that criminal will abide by. Keep working on that!
 
Grand Mal said:
Thread: Gun Saves 3 Peoples Lives-Will Media Cover It?

Just a quibble here- If guns don't kill people, they don't save people either. It's the person with the gun who saved people.
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that's an obvious and valid point

an important corollary is that gun control schemes that seek to limit people buying owning or possessing guns are far more likely to disarm good people than those intent on committing crimes
 
justabubba said:
there is no doubt in instances such as the one you experienced and the one cited within the OP that guns have proven to be lifesaving

but neither should there be any doubt that they also represent the cause of 88 fatalities (on average) each day of the year within the USA

you are a member of the medical industry. a place where human life is so valued that you and those like you have dedicated huge portions of your lives and assets to be able to preserve such life. which is something that puzzles me when i see you advocating for unregulated guns responsible for the loss of 88 lives each day
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stop the fibbing. He doesn't advocate "unregulated guns". I am pretty sure he supports jailing, for long periods of time< those robbers. That is regulating the improper or harmful misuse of firearms. He probably supports-as I do-enhancing the prison sentences of the robbers because they carried deadly weapons when they perpetrated their crime

what he most likely doesn't support-are calls that you have made banning honest and good people from owning or carrying handguns for proper reasons
 
truthatallcost said:
I think we've ignored a vital question: Why does gun violence seem so common today when it didn't in the past? What exactly is causing people to come unhinged and pick up a gun?

My grandparents generation didn't live with constant stories of spree killers, gang shootings, and terrorism. In only 2 generations since that time, we've become a vastly more violent society, despite becoming way more liberal than my grandparents generation was. What went wrong?
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Every chart shows there's actually dramatically less gun violence today than before. We just hear more about it than before thanks to the 24/7 news cycle. We are a far LESS violent society than before. Note the huge drop during and in the decade after WWII - there's several possibilities for that. But when it comes to the big drop starting in the 1990's, it was postulated in "Freakonomics" (great book - you should read it) that this might be due at least in part to Roe v. Wade, since that SCOTUS decision came about sixteen years before the drop in homicides began.

Homicides-1900-2010-2.jpg

It's sorta like cops being shot - we hear a LOT more about it today, don't we? If we listen to the news, it's almost as if there's a war of gangs and thugs against cops, isn't it? But in reality, the number of cop shootings has been going down for years.

police1.jpg

And here's the lesson - we all have our beliefs, and it's hard to ignore what we see on the news...but we should be careful to verify what we see on the news with the actual numbers out there, since - as demonstrated above - the hard numbers often show something completely different than what we see on the news.
 
truthatallcost said:
Will the media cover this as vigorously as the mother who was shot by her 4 year old son on accident?
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The media did cover it. That's where you got your OP (conveniently omitting the link...)


But, the media is under no obligation to kowtow to gun fetishists.
 
Ahlevah said:
You mean you can trust the cops unless you're black:



Anyway, back to my original point. If people want contraband, they'll find a way to get it.



You realize there are no coca plants or opium poppies here to register here, right? And yet there's probably more dope on the streets (with gun-toting felons peddling it) than ever.



Well, I go back to the issue of trust. You think "there's more than a few bad cops out there," right? (At least, that's what you wrote last August). So why would you think the Feds are any different when it comes to gathering personal information on the public, like tax records, medical records, or a gun registry? :confused:
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There ARE more than a few bad cops out there in America...but it's a MATTER OF DEGREE. If you'd lived in a third-world nation as I have, you'd understand. What does "more than a few" denote - 5%? Even 10% at the highest? I'd be very surprised if it's as high as that...but even 5% of all cops is still a LOT of bad cops...in America.

Whereas in a third-world nation, you'd be hard-pressed to find a cop who is NOT on the take. Why? Cops in third-world nations don't get paid much at all...and so they normally have to take bribes in order to provide food, shelter, and clothing for their family. This isn't a joke or a wild claim - I've paid off cops several times in the Philippines - heck, I even paid off a judge to get my brother-in-law out of jail on drug charges (and he's now here in America working a full-time job supporting his kids). In fact, one of the biggest shocks that my brothers-in-law had when they came to America was when I told them that NO, you don't try to bribe cops here, that doing so is a quick way to wind up in jail.

Again, there ARE a lot of bad cops here - but it's a MATTER OF DEGREE, because the percentage of bad cops that we have here doesn't come close to what is found in third-world nations. So when you try to compare my statements to try to tear down my point, make sure you know what you're talking about first.
 
Mr Person said:
The media did cover it. That's where you got your OP (conveniently omitting the link...)


But, the media is under no obligation to kowtow to gun fetishists.
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You sound like you'd rather not have this story talked about. Why?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Every chart shows there's actually dramatically less gun violence today than before. We just hear more about it than before thanks to the 24/7 news cycle. We are a far LESS violent society than before. Note the huge drop during and in the decade after WWII - there's several possibilities for that. But when it comes to the big drop starting in the 1990's, it was postulated in "Freakonomics" (great book - you should read it) that this might be due at least in part to Roe v. Wade, since that SCOTUS decision came about sixteen years before the drop in homicides began.

View attachment 67198501

It's sorta like cops being shot - we hear a LOT more about it today, don't we? If we listen to the news, it's almost as if there's a war of gangs and thugs against cops, isn't it? But in reality, the number of cop shootings has been going down for years.

View attachment 67198502

And here's the lesson - we all have our beliefs, and it's hard to ignore what we see on the news...but we should be careful to verify what we see on the news with the actual numbers out there, since - as demonstrated above - the hard numbers often show something completely different than what we see on the news.
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You may be right. It just seems like more violence happens against innocent people today.
Prohibition era murders would be comprised of a lot of gangsters killing gangsters, whereas these bs random college shootings are just total innocents being gunned down. Maybe I should have clarified that I think victimhood has changed and its no longer possible to avoid violence completely by way of lifestyle choices.

I'm also not completely trusting of the police. They have an incentive to appear as though they're having an effect on crime, so I wonder if its being accurately tallied.

NPR had a really interesting show where they discussed how the NYPD were forging crime statistics, and omitting many felonies. In the 1990s, police departments started using computer programs to store statistics. The NPR story detailed how the NYPD were grossly out right lying about how much violent crime existed, so that they could go to the NY Times every year and get headlines that touted lower crime numbers. Of course the Chief of Police for the NYPD would get a pat on the back from the mayor, and meanwhile inner city neighborhoods were still as bad as ever.
 
I love how they put the suspect in the bathtub so he wouldn't bleed all over the carpet. lol
 
truthatallcost said:
You may be right. It just seems like more violence happens against innocent people today.
Prohibition era murders would be comprised of a lot of gangsters killing gangsters, whereas these bs random college shootings are just total innocents being gunned down. Maybe I should have clarified that I think victimhood has changed and its no longer possible to avoid violence completely by way of lifestyle choices.

I'm also not completely trusting of the police. They have an incentive to appear as though they're having an effect on crime, so I wonder if its being accurately tallied.

NPR had a really interesting show where they discussed how the NYPD were forging crime statistics, and omitting many felonies. In the 1990s, police departments started using computer programs to store statistics. The NPR story detailed how the NYPD were grossly out right lying about how much violent crime existed, so that they could go to the NY Times every year and get headlines that touted lower crime numbers. Of course the Chief of Police for the NYPD would get a pat on the back from the mayor, and meanwhile inner city neighborhoods were still as bad as ever.
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I'm not entirely trusting of law enforcement either, having had my wife's business ruined because an investigator couldn't bring herself to get past her assumptions and actually do her damned job. But I do believe that the great majority of law enforcement honestly want to do the right thing.

But the numbers are clear - there is much less violence today than there was twenty, thirty years ago - including against innocent people. Again, the numbers are clear. It's just very hard to remember that when watching the news where they've made a science of keeping your eyes glued to the screen about the newest outrage or scandal. Listen to Kenny Loggins' song "Dirty Laundry" sometime - it was from before the era of the internet, but applies now more than ever.
 
We hear a lot about how guns kill people. No, they do not. So why are we here discussing that guns saved people? They did not. The reaction of the homeowner saved lives. Devices are only as good or bad as their handlers.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The media did cover it...but how's that three lives saved compare to the dozens of other innocents killed on any innocent day by gunfire?
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And isn't that gunfire done by spineless trash like Rafael McCloud as opposed to law abiding citizens??????.
 
Lovebug said:
We hear a lot about how guns kill people. No, they do not. So why are we here discussing that guns saved people? They did not. The reaction of the homeowner saved lives. Devices are only as good or bad as their handlers.
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The homeowner couldn't have saved her family without the use of a gun. The suspect was an armed killer who escaped from prison. The gun evened the playing field here.
 
jmotivator said:
Yeah, what we need are gun laws that criminal will abide by. Keep working on that!
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"Don't pass laws because criminals will only ignore them!"

Well, isn't that a brilliant argument! In that case, let's get rid of laws against bank robbery or rape, because criminals will only ignore those laws, too!
 
truthatallcost said:
The homeowner couldn't have saved her family without the use of a gun. The suspect was an armed killer who escaped from prison. The gun evened the playing field here.
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But the gun didn't jump out of the closet and killed someone. Neither do guns jump out and kill at random. Someone pulls the trigger, or at least that is the pro gun argument. I read it on pro gun signs all the time..."guns don't kill people, people kill people"
We can't have it both ways.
 
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