fair and balanced?

Chomsky said:

Not attempting to be facetious, but if "Liberal" thought is so endemic throughout our society as you describe, wouldn't it then be defined as "mainstream", with other POV's then being "minority" or "fringe"?

Just seems to follow.

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Well one, the media maybe a propaganda tool, but it is not only basis for thought-formulation in our society. Also, how would you expect the media's liberal bias to be defined, if they are biased in the first place? It's an anomaly, that can't be solved unless the media becomes unbiased which results in them...not being biased anymore. One only has to venture to the Huffington Post or NY Times to see a 'Donald Trump is an Idiot' article, and while he very well is in a lot of way, I can attribute that to my own personal bias. Scroll down to the comments section and there will be a conservative who claims 'this article is biased'. Then several liberals who claim 'that's what Fox News told you so you are wrong'. I already stated a array of information as well, all of which can be fact-checked using Google.

If you want to see the results of such, can you refute that conservatives are largely struggling because they have not conformed to societies new beliefs (those that are liberal beliefs)

Can you not see how nearly every social policy of democrats becomes more integrated into society by the day? Whether it be gay marriage, women's rights, environmental reform. These definitely aren't conservative ideals.

Even socialism, once thought of as taboo, is now increasing accepted in society, especially among millennials. What's become more conservative in the past hundred years? Not the way we dress, not the way we talk, and not the way we act.

I'm not saying this is all bad, most of it is good and ideal, but to refute the idea that the media strong presence and views havn't altered culture in society is asinine at best.

thenotorious said:

Well one, the media maybe a propaganda tool, but it is not only basis for thought-formulation in our society. Also, how would you expect the media's liberal bias to be defined, if they are biased in the first place? It's an anomaly, that can't be solved unless the media becomes unbiased which results in them...not being biased anymore. One only has to venture to the Huffington Post or NY Times to see a 'Donald Trump is an Idiot' article, and while he very well is in a lot of way, I can attribute that to my own personal bias. Scroll down to the comments section and there will be a conservative who claims 'this article is biased'. Then several liberals who claim 'that's what Fox News told you so you are wrong'. I already stated a array of information as well, all of which can be fact-checked using Google.

If you want to see the results of such, can you refute that conservatives are largely struggling because they have not conformed to societies new beliefs (those that are liberal beliefs)

Can you not see how nearly every social policy of democrats becomes more integrated into society by the day? Whether it be gay marriage, women's rights, environmental reform. These definitely aren't conservative ideals.

Even socialism, once thought of as taboo, is now increasing accepted in society, especially among millennials. What's become more conservative in the past hundred years? Not the way we dress, not the way we talk, and not the way we act.

I'm not saying this is all bad, most of it is good and ideal, but to refute the idea that the media strong presence and views havn't altered culture in society is asinine at best.

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Thank you for the detailed reply.

To the bolded:

Ah, but yes, that's the point I was making. The examples you state of conservative principles not being seen as 'mainstream', might be because because they are becoming, well, less 'mainstream'! I'm citing numbers and social phenomena, not making a value judgement here. There are good conservative ideas as there are good progressive ideas, and we need both to keep each other in check!

But if conservatism is becoming less visible in the media, maybe media is reflecting it's less popularity amongst the general populace?

While I do think conservatism is shrinking and becoming more minority and marginalized, I believe the even bigger trend is polarization leaving a chasm in the middle, and the middle was where compromise and resolution have often resided; therefore: we have government stalemate!

And also, I believe that often conservatives feel pressured socially, while many liberals feel pressured economically. Our politicians don't hesitate to play to our fears and pressures, and this has led to 'compromise' becoming a dirty word!

Chomsky said:

Thank you for the detailed reply.

To the bolded:

Ah, but yes, that's the point I was making. The examples you state of conservative principles not being seen as 'mainstream', might be because because they are becoming, well, less 'mainstream'! I'm citing numbers and social phenomena, not making a value judgement here. There are good conservative ideas as there are good progressive ideas, and we need both to keep each other in check!

But if conservatism is becoming less visible in the media, maybe media is reflecting it's less popularity amongst the general populace?

While I do think conservatism is shrinking and becoming more minority and marginalized, I believe the even bigger trend is polarization leaving a chasm in the middle, and the middle was where compromise and resolution have often resided; therefore: we have government stalemate!

And also, I believe that often conservatives feel pressured socially, while many liberals feel pressured economically. Our politicians don't hesitate to play to our fears and pressures, and this has led to 'compromise' becoming a dirty word!

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Yes conservatives are less mainstream, and in contrary, liberal values become more mainstream. You have to ask, why though? It just doesn't happen out of thin air.
More than ever we have a world with people connected to media. Facebook, Google. TVs, phones, video games. Media has always been highly influential, because even if it doesn't influence you, it can influence your friends and therefore indirectly influence you.

This is not scientifically validated, but through my own observation, social groups that avoid media are generally fairly conservative. i.e. Older folks, but I have seen older folks become more liberal after accessing media. I think there's a strong correlation, who knows there might be a study over it.

I don't think it really reflects a change in the populace's views as much as it reflects a willingness in the populace to change view's. If people were resistant enough, then these organizations would not be able to stay in business, but they are so they continue their message.

Most journalists identify as liberal, and it's hard to conceptualize considering most creative people naturally lean left. It's not hard to then infer that if journalists have viewpoints, people are willing to listen, that they won't spread that message. Considering the only thing that would be stopping them is unwritten set of rules, which liberals are not known to even follow written ones if they feel it isn't 'for the greater good'.

I wouldn't say polarization is becoming a bigger trend. I would say non-polar individuals have just left the race. Most conservatives have either left the party or politics altogether leaving only the very passionate. So you have a strong right-side, which then forces people even further to the left. Then it creates the effect of new people not wanting to participate because both sides are bias, judgemental, and extreme. However, I still think even the rightest of people have become more liberal. The attitudes towards gay for examples, while may not be perfect, have to agree that they have severely improved from the barbaric thinking they used to have.

what you are saying bias is in the eye of the beholder,FOX NOISE FAIR AND BIAS,i can not tell FOX from the rest of the liberal media.
i bet every time TRUMP went up 5 points,the boys in LONDON where calling old rup.
news media bias is as common as the 24 hr news cycle,but when FOX gets worse then msnbc it is time to call it what it is bias,it is like being a little bit pregnant,either you are or you are not,no shades of gray here.

RUN DON RUN

I have noticed in debates by Fox News they tend to ask harder questions than debates run by ABC, CNN, and MSNBC.

Fox News cannot be accused of having a "liberal bias." Thus, they can ask the difficult questions.

When I watched the CNN town hall you can tell Anderson Cooper was afraid of the Republicans. He didn't want to be accused of having a liberal bias or being yelled at by the Republicans so he asked very softball-eek questions.

SHOOTER said:

what you are saying bias is in the eye of the beholder,FOX NOISE FAIR AND BIAS,i can not tell FOX from the rest of the liberal media.
i bet every time TRUMP went up 5 points,the boys in LONDON where calling old rup.
news media bias is as common as the 24 hr news cycle,but when FOX gets worse then msnbc it is time to call it what it is bias,it is like being a little bit pregnant,either you are or you are not,no shades of gray here.

RUN DON RUN

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It's hard to formulate anything from your context, but from what I can gather you think Fox News and Newscorp make up a majority of media in America. That thought is not asinine by luck, it's simply untrue.

thenotorious said:

It has actually dropped by more than two percent

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No, as of last month it has actually dropped less than two percent, from 64.6 to 62.7.



>>you have your array of excuses to dignify if it was even at zero percent.

Not excuses, just demographic facts.

>>the terrible income equality

That is a indeed a very big problem.

>>the debt just keeps getting higher and higher

As a percentage of GDP, which is the relevant measure, it's no longer growing. And if we can stop applying GOP SSE policies, we should be OK.





>>a man who took us from having a good amount of debt that we needed to pay off to crushing debt we will probably never pay off

Obama didn't create the conditions that led to the debt — GOP SSE policies did.

>>to spend on things we will never see true value from in our economy.

>>Happy spending, I heard debt does miraculous things.

Spending isn't the problem. We've shoveled trillions of dollars at upper-income households over the past thirty years through failed GOP SSE policies, resulting in a large national debt, a crumbling infrastructure, and massive wealth inequality.

Reality Land said:

If the economy is so good why do we have a deficit each year

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Because we're continuing to recover from the GOP SSE Great Recession.

>>why under Obama have we seen record borrowing to a 18.5 trillion dollar debt?

Ditto.

>>Yes, there is a discrepency between the government's unemployment figure and the reality.

No, there is not.

>>the hardest hit under Obama is by far the black community.



>>And we all know that family income has dropped.

Real median household income

2010 — $53,507
2015 — $53,657

>>how many lberal presidents have to serve and wreck the economy before people finally understand that liberal policies do not work.



>>I guess partisanship keeps people blinded to reality. Sigh...

Maybe stop sighing and open yer eyes.

mmi said:

No, as of last month it has actually dropped less than two percent, from 64.6 to 62.7.

View attachment 67197450

>>you have your array of excuses to dignify if it was even at zero percent.

Not excuses, just demographic facts.

>>the terrible income equality

That is a indeed a very big problem.

>>the debt just keeps getting higher and higher

As a percentage of GDP, which is the relevant measure, it's no longer growing. And if we can stop applying GOP SSE policies, we should be OK.

View attachment 67197451

View attachment 67197453

>>a man who took us from having a good amount of debt that we needed to pay off to crushing debt we will probably never pay off

Obama didn't create the conditions that led to the debt — GOP SSE policies did.

>>to spend on things we will never see true value from in our economy.

>>Happy spending, I heard debt does miraculous things.

Spending isn't the problem. We've shoveled trillions of dollars at upper-income households over the past thirty years through failed GOP SSE policies, resulting in a large national debt, a crumbling infrastructure, and massive wealth inequality.



Because we're continuing to recover from the GOP SSE Great Recession.

>>why under Obama have we seen record borrowing to a 18.5 trillion dollar debt?

Ditto.

>>Yes, there is a discrepency between the government's unemployment figure and the reality.

No, there is not.

>>the hardest hit under Obama is by far the black community.

View attachment 67197454

>>And we all know that family income has dropped.

Real median household income

2010 — $53,507
2015 — $53,657

>>how many lberal presidents have to serve and wreck the economy before people finally understand that liberal policies do not work.

View attachment 67197455

>>I guess partisanship keeps people blinded to reality. Sigh...

Maybe stop sighing and open yer eyes.

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Quite sad, that you are so partisan. You could invoke real change if you didn't believe GOP were the source for all of your's and everyone's problems like they do vice versa.

thenotorious said:

Quite sad, that you are so partisan.

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Quite telling, that you offer no counterargument.

>>if you didn't believe GOP were the source for all of your's and everyone's problems

I don't think that, of course. But it seems obvious that GOP SSE policies are responsible for all the debt as a percentage of GDP we've piled up over the past thirty years. The figures tell the story.

1981-92, up 97%
1993-2001, down 11%, despite inheriting large deficits
2002-09, up 24%, despite inheriting large surpluses
2009-16, up 37%, after inheriting a massive deficit, and up only 7 over the past five years

mmi said:

Quite telling, that you offer no counterargument.

>>if you didn't believe GOP were the source for all of your's and everyone's problems

I don't think that, of course. But it seems obvious that GOP SSE policies are responsible for all the debt as a percentage of GDP we've piled up over the past thirty years. The figures tell the story.

1981-92, up 97%
1993-2001, down 11%, despite inheriting large deficits
2002-09, up 24%, despite inheriting large surpluses
2009-16, up 37%, after inheriting a massive deficit, and up only 7 over the past five years

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Not even a dollar for the dems?

mmi said:

If you mean that there are a lot of factors contributing to the false narratives coming from the Right, I'll agree that contributions from the Center for Immigration Studies is among them.

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False narratives always come from opposing points of view. Plus, this is an election year, it's getting political. Think back to how the left-leaning media hyped the anti-Bush message when Obama was running for office. Same thing.

It's gonna happen.

thenotorious said:

Not even a dollar for the dems?

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Good catch. I should have said "just about all."

HowardBThiname said:

False narratives always come from opposing points of view. Plus, this is an election year, it's getting political.

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I think I understand yer point, but it seems to me that people can disagree without putting out stacks of lies the way CIS and FAIR do. Those organizations are like Fox News — professional liars. And they don't wait for election years.

mmi said:

I think I understand yer point, but it seems to me that people can disagree without putting out stacks of lies the way CIS and FAIR do. Those organizations are like Fox News — professional liars. And they don't wait for election years.

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They're just more prevalent in election years. I've come to the realization that journalism and integrity will never again meet.

no not at all,i do realize that you do not know me,i am just making an observation ,i watch them all,although your remark about me thanking that news corp makes up the majority of news in AMERICA IS A CHEEEEEP SHOT to say the least.
"That thought is not asinine by luck, it's simply untrue"
first you do not know what i thank and if anyone is making an asinine remark here it is you sir.formulate this .
NEWS CORP,which owns FOX NEWS may not be the majority of the news but they are close. take a look at their holdings.

Who Owns What - Columbia Journalism Review
and yes the

No media venue is completely objective and unbiased. And, most people gravitate towards sources of print and broadcast news that appeals to themselves. As far as TV Journalism is concerned, the online anchors resemble groomed and attractive entertainers more than competent newscasters. Their on air comedic banter is disingenuous and an affront to the giants of broadcast journalism, like Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, David Brinkley, Charlie Rose, Bill Moyers and other serious commentators. We need journalists, who avoid editorialising and stick to reporting the facts. And, broadcast news producers, directors and CEO's should hire and support the best investigative journalists available. Their indepth scrutiny of politicians, the Financial Sector, Government agencies, and other public and private organizations is especially important today and critical to the continued survival of a free society. America has already drifted towards a government of Big Money, for Big Money and by Big Money. And, unfortunately, it's getting worse. If the American people are not careful, their political, religious and financial naivete and blind faith in our government and private sector leaders will be our undoing and demise.

Exactly

run don run