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Trump Exposes Fox News, What Now?

Are you kidding me? You do know what xenophobia is right? Trump is outright known for his extreme xenophobia...

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists."

Yes, I know what the definition of xenophobia is, and I don't think that remark is any indication of Trump being xenophobic.

All of these things are true.

Of the illegal immigrants who are illegally crossing the border, there are some who are bringing drugs, some who are rapists (murderers and other criminals included), and some who are arriving have their 'problems', be it any number of mental health issues.

Observing these facts doesn't add up to being xenophobic.
 
Yes, the fact there were escapes clearly undermines the effectiveness of the wall. Of course you don't have the exact numbers handy, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

So anything less than 100% is deemed ineffective? That's not rational.

That stays past a deadline of a tourist visa is part of the problem. This is an issue a border fence wouldn't magically fix.

Good thing that I didn't say that it would.

The border issue isn't the only problem with illegal immigration, but Trump has routinely touted this as a massive issue. However, Trump's intellect, nor his electorate can see past this, which makes his whole campaign a joke.
 
Yes, I know what the definition of xenophobia is, and I don't think that remark is any indication of Trump being xenophobic.

All of these things are true.

Of the illegal immigrants who are illegally crossing the border, there are some who are bringing drugs, some who are rapists (murderers and other criminals included), and some who are arriving have their 'problems', be it any number of mental health issues.

Observing these facts doesn't add up to being xenophobic.

:doh:doh
If you dont think that statement is xenophobic then you clearly do not know what xenophobia is....
And Im not going to go into that garbage about the "statement being true".
 
:doh:doh
If you dont think that statement is xenophobic then you clearly do not know what xenophobia is....
And Im not going to go into that garbage about the "statement being true".

Dangit, as soon as I saw your initial post about Trump's quote being xenophobic, I knew the classic response would be something along the lines of, "but it's not xenophobic if it's true."

Alas, he beat me to it.
 
Yes, I know what the definition of xenophobia is, and I don't think that remark is any indication of Trump being xenophobic.

All of these things are true.

Of the illegal immigrants who are illegally crossing the border, there are some who are bringing drugs, some who are rapists (murderers and other criminals included), and some who are arriving have their 'problems', be it any number of mental health issues.

Observing these facts doesn't add up to being xenophobic.

And some are asylum seekers. The fact you see these people as "rapists (murderers and other criminals included)" shows your xenophobia.

So anything less than 100% is deemed ineffective? That's not rational.



Good thing that I didn't say that it would.

It's far less than 100% effective, which is the issue.
 
If typing so fast as to not type a letter is all of an argument that you have, a grammar complaint, then you have no argument.

Yeah, yeah, it's always a "typo".
 
Yes, I know what the definition of xenophobia is, and I don't think that remark is any indication of Trump being xenophobic.

All of these things are true.

Of the illegal immigrants who are illegally crossing the border, there are some who are bringing drugs, some who are rapists (murderers and other criminals included), and some who are arriving have their 'problems', be it any number of mental health issues.

Observing these facts doesn't add up to being xenophobic.

The xenophobia enters the equation because Trump, and others, are using a fact (that there are some bad people in a particular population) to scare Americans into believing that a significant number, perhaps even the majority or all, of that population shares a bad quality with the few individuals that are, objectively, "bad."

Consider this message: The individuals who cross the border illegally are more likely to engage in other criminal activities. Now that statement may be true, but it is still xenophobic because it implies that we should be afraid of all members of that particular population. With that said, at least the xenophobia of that message is slightly hidden.

But when you phrase that scare tactic by saying that Mexico is sending its drug dealers and rapists into America, then you aren't even doing a good job of hiding the xenophobia.
 
:doh:doh
If you dont think that statement is xenophobic then you clearly do not know what xenophobia is....
And Im not going to go into that garbage about the "statement being true".

No, I think it is you who doesn't know what xenophobic is.
xen·o·pho·bic
zenəˈfōbik,ˌzēnəˈfōbik/
adjective
adjective: xenophobic
having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.
"the xenophobic undertones of this argument"

First off, all illegal aliens are criminals, by definition. They broke the law when they entered illegally or overstayed their tourism visa illegally.

Dangit, as soon as I saw your initial post about Trump's quote being xenophobic, I knew the classic response would be something along the lines of, "but it's not xenophobic if it's true."

Alas, he beat me to it.

And some are asylum seekers. The fact you see these people as "rapists (murderers and other criminals included)" shows your xenophobia.

True. But what small fraction of the whole? Single digit percentage?

No one said anything about all of them being "rapists (murderers and other criminals included)", only that there are some of them that are, which is in fact backed up by facts.

Now, what would be xenophobic if the claim was made that ALL of the illegal aliens are "rapists (murderers and other criminals included)". But it's a good thing that no one is making this claim.

A difference, you know?

It's far less than 100% effective, which is the issue.

It is more effective than doing nothing, that is a certainty.

The reality about illegal aliens and their crime rate is mixed, and reality is never black and white, but there is certainly substance to the position that there are a proportional higher number of criminals who comprise this population group.

Supporters of the Trump theory have been pointing to data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission that found undocumented immigrants account for disturbingly high levels of violent crime. While they represent just 3.5% of the U.S. population, undocumented immigrants represented 7% of federal prison sentences following convictions on charges of sexual abuse, 9% of murders, 12% of assaults and 30% of kidnappings in 2013.

Case closed, right? Far from it.

Only a tiny percentage of the nation’s violent crimes are handled by the federal court system. Yes, undocumented immigrants accounted for 9.2% of federal murder convictions in 2013, but that represents a grand total of eight murder cases. When you consider that the FBI estimates there were 14,196 murders in the U.S. in 2013, those few cases handled by the federal court system don’t quite register as a reliable sample set.
Voices: How violent are undocumented immigrants?

PJ Media obtained a never-before-released copy of a Texas DPS report on human smuggling containing the numbers of crimes committed by aliens in Texas. According to the analysis conducted by the Texas Department of Public Safety, foreign aliens committed 611,234 unique crimes in Texas from 2008 to 2014, including thousands of homicides and sexual assaults.

The report describes an alien crime wave of staggering proportions exacerbated by federal officials unwilling to enforce immigration laws.

The Texas DPS report says well over 100,000 individual criminal aliens have been booked into Texas jails:

From October 2008 to April 2014, Texas identified a total 177,588 unique criminal alien defendants booked into Texas county jails. These individuals have been identified through the Secure Communities initiative, in which Texas has participated since October 2008.

There are almost certainly more criminal aliens who haven’t been identified as aliens. The 177,588 criminal aliens identified by Texas through the Secure Communities initiative only can tag criminal aliens who had already been fingerprinted. Arrests of illegal aliens who have not been fingerprinted prior to arrest are not included in these arrests numbers derived from the Secure Communities initiative. That means that the already stratospheric aggregate crime totals would be even higher if crimes by many illegal aliens who are not in the fingerprint database were included.
Illegal Alien Crime Wave in Texas: 611,234 Crimes, 2,993 Murders

The reality must lie somewhere in between, which is to say, yes a higher crime rate than what you'd typically expect.
 
No, I think it is you who doesn't know what xenophobic is.
.

Now how are Trumps comments not xenophobic? He is irrationally claiming that the state of Mexico is sending people here who are drug dealers, rapists, etc. Now how is that not xenophobia?
 
True. But what small fraction of the whole? Single digit percentage?

Are you just making this up as you go along?

No one said anything about all of them being "rapists (murderers and other criminals included)", only that there are some of them that are, which is in fact backed up by facts.

Now, what would be xenophobic if the claim was made that ALL of the illegal aliens are "rapists (murderers and other criminals included)". But it's a good thing that no one is making this claim.

A difference, you know?



It is more effective than doing nothing, that is a certainty.

The reality about illegal aliens and their crime rate is mixed, and reality is never black and white, but there is certainly substance to the position that there are a proportional higher number of criminals who comprise this population group.

You are making that assumption, which makes your argument hilarious.

Voices: How violent are undocumented immigrants?

Illegal Alien Crime Wave in Texas: 611,234 Crimes, 2,993 Murders

The reality must lie somewhere in between, which is to say, yes a higher crime rate than what you'd typically expect.

Yes, and I have sources too (both of these are from conservative/libertarian organizations):

Immigration and Crime – What the Research Says | Cato @ Liberty

The Mythical Connection Between Immigrants and Crime - WSJ

Your "immigrants are coming to rape us and steal our jobs" rhetoric is nonsense.
 
Now how are Trumps comments not xenophobic? He is irrationally claiming that the state of Mexico is sending people here who are drug dealers, rapists, etc. Now how is that not xenophobia?

Did Trump claim that ALL of those people were drug dealers, rapists, etc.?

He did not. He even stated that there were good people in that population as well.

So not a xenophobic statement he made.
 
Irony... a clear Rolling Stone hate filled attack piece characterized on someone else's perceived political slants and propaganda intentions for us to discuss here in "Bias in the Media."


First, Rolling Stone is an entertainment magazine and has never said they were anything different, even when Hunter S Thompson covered the 1972 elections.

Second, the author is a poor man's Hunter S. Thompson more concerned with his image than journalistic integrity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Taibbi


So take it with a grain of salt, but I have to admire the line "His July 2009 Rolling Stone article "The Great American Bubble Machine" described Goldman Sachs as "a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money"

Clear Thompson rip off, but entertaining....."vampire squid' Very clever, but juvenile
 
Are you just making this up as you go along?



You are making that assumption, which makes your argument hilarious.



Yes, and I have sources too (both of these are from conservative/libertarian organizations):

Immigration and Crime – What the Research Says | Cato @ Liberty

The Mythical Connection Between Immigrants and Crime - WSJ

Your "immigrants are coming to rape us and steal our jobs" rhetoric is nonsense.

So you are of the opinion that there are absolutely no rapists, no drug dealers, and no criminals in the population of illegal aliens?
 
Did Trump claim that ALL of those people were drug dealers, rapists, etc.?
It makes no difference.

He even stated that there were good people in that population as well.
Oh boy! Mr Trump! So nice :roll:

So not a xenophobic statement he made.
It does not matter if he said "all". HE CLAIMED the state of Mexico, you get that, the country and govenrment of Mexico is sending rapists, drug dealers, etc over here and some, just some might be good people. Now again, how is that not xenophobia?

I can tell you how IT IS xenophobia
For it to be xenopbhoia it needs to satisfy several conditions 1.)Irrational and 2.)Dislike and or fear of people from other countries.
Now how is it irrational. Well 1.)he offered no evidence to support his claim that Mexico is sending people over here nor did he offer evidence that showed that the people they are supposedly sending are rapists, drug dealers, etc. And there is actual evidence to show that undocumented immigrants or migrants actually have a lower crime rate than the general population.
2.)Now how does this show a fear/dislike of people from other countries? Well just look at the ****ing statement..

So no, it is xenophobia, and your attempt to show that it is not xenophobia has failed over and over again. So can you/are you going to try again to somehow show how its not xenophobia?
 
Bubba, You've outdone yourself, good job.

Whoa! This has got to be some sort of put on. A fabrication. A well done one, that's for sure. Kudos Bubba!

totally awesome!

I think I need a pair of gloves like that. Really.

Unearthed that one from over 2 years ago.
Seemed to fit the thread so what the hell.
Sad that so many of those folks aren't here anymore.
That sounded terrible ... not my intention.
 
So you are of the opinion that there are absolutely no rapists, no drug dealers, and no criminals in the population of illegal aliens?

I never said that. Where are you pulling this from?
 
Trump and the corporate media both need to to something.. Leave the political realm and never come back.



Yeah, **** it, let's just hide that ugly cancer growing in the government, keep ignoring it so we can keep the status quo and elct the only the guys we agree with.

Trump is a blunt instrument, and dangerous, but he is a factor, THE factor in this election. Hate what he has to say, attack him all you like there is a lot with which to find fault.

But the truth is he has tapped a vein of unrest and anger in the country. It is not him, but who is listening that you need to fear. And "they" are the people who can't swallow "you can keep your plan", who don't buy "elect me because I'm a woman, who are fed up with decades of non action on important files like immigration, social welfare reform etc. etc, etc, unneccessary goverment shut downs....

That's what Americans need to look at; the movement is obviously large, motivated, angry and diverse. all it needed was a spokesman and Trump became it. Americans sneer at him at their own peril, as that movement can become the most powerful force to reckon with.
 
Are you just making this up as you go along?



You are making that assumption, which makes your argument hilarious.



Yes, and I have sources too (both of these are from conservative/libertarian organizations):

Immigration and Crime – What the Research Says | Cato @ Liberty

The Mythical Connection Between Immigrants and Crime - WSJ

Your "immigrants are coming to rape us and steal our jobs" rhetoric is nonsense.



Your examples only deal with legal immigrants. Let us talk about the other 500,000 who cheat their way in. There's a reason they don't take the legal way. I wonder how good you are at finding a site with crime rates of illegals? How many are drug dealers. How many are convicted criminals evading prosecution?
 
It makes no difference.


Oh boy! Mr Trump! So nice :roll:


It does not matter if he said "all". HE CLAIMED the state of Mexico, you get that, the country and govenrment of Mexico is sending rapists, drug dealers, etc over here and some, just some might be good people. Now again, how is that not xenophobia?

I can tell you how IT IS xenophobia
For it to be xenopbhoia it needs to satisfy several conditions 1.)Irrational and 2.)Dislike and or fear of people from other countries.
Now how is it irrational. Well 1.)he offered no evidence to support his claim that Mexico is sending people over here nor did he offer evidence that showed that the people they are supposedly sending are rapists, drug dealers, etc. And there is actual evidence to show that undocumented immigrants or migrants actually have a lower crime rate than the general population.
2.)Now how does this show a fear/dislike of people from other countries? Well just look at the ****ing statement..

So no, it is xenophobia, and your attempt to show that it is not xenophobia has failed over and over again. So can you/are you going to try again to somehow show how its not xenophobia?



How is it xenophobic? He's talking about a government, a government doing the same thing Cuba and Venezuela have done. He may e incorrect, he may be blustering and bull****ting, it IS fear mongering, but it is NOT xenophobic.
 
Your examples only deal with legal immigrants. Let us talk about the other 500,000 who cheat their way in. There's a reason they don't take the legal way. I wonder how good you are at finding a site with crime rates of illegals? How many are drug dealers. How many are convicted criminals evading prosecution?

Per the Cato article:

The public focus is on the crime rates of unauthorized or illegal immigrants. The research papers above mostly include all immigrants regardless of legal status.

There is no claim that rape, crime, drug cartel activity being done by legal and illegal immigrants is none, or next to zero. What is being refuted is the "immigrants are coming to rape us and steal our jobs" nonsense, which is what Trump is touting.
 
How is it xenophobic? He's talking about a government
You kidding me? :doh Yes he is talking about the government but in reference to SENDING ITS PEOPLE (Mexicans)...

,but it is NOT xenophobic.

No it is xenophobia because its in direct reference to their people.
 
I never said that. Where are you pulling this from?

The only way that Trump's statement isn't truthful, is if there are no no rapists, no drug dealers, and no criminals in the population of illegal aliens.

We know that there are, so how is Trump's statement not true? His statement that there are some illegal aliens that are rapists, drug dealers, etc. in the population of illegal aliens.
 
You kidding me? :doh Yes he is talking about the government but in reference to SENDING ITS PEOPLE (Mexicans)...



No it is xenophobia because its in direct reference to their people.


Aha, YOU are the racist.

Were he to reference Canada and "it's people" you would have no case.
 
What a great article, part of their problem is promoting the extreme rather than a good conservative candidate. They promoted Trump bedcause his appeal to the extreme.

View attachment 67192259

No they gave him so much time for ratings and advertising revenue.
 
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