What did we learn, Thursday, about Benghazi?

MrT · Oct 23, 2015

I would contend that we did not learn anything substantially new. Pretty much every fact that was raised and hammered against Clinton was facts that we already knew and facts that were already addressed by previous Congressional Reports.

Here is a link to CNN which compiled 11 takeaways - one for each hour - to help start this discussion: 11 Benghazi takeaways: One for each hour - CNNPolitics.com

The biggest reveal that I see is that Mrs. Clinton had a communication with her daughter and with an Egyptian official wherein she blamed the attack on a premeditated attack, rather than the anti-muslim video. Mrs. Clinton responded to questions that these statements should be taken in the context of the "fog" of war and that, at the time, the exact intentions were unknown and thus, conflicting messages were made. Nearly all of these shortcomings were, of course, previously addressed in the 8 previous investigations.

The only other message that is likely to get picked up by Republicans is that Mrs. Clinton noted she was unsure whether or not she spoke with Mr. Stevens after he was sworn into office.

What did you learn yesterday?

OrphanSlug · Oct 23, 2015

In no particular order...

1. Clinton was well prepared and/or coached. It took almost 11 hours to really get emotion out of her where it looked like they may trip her up, but ultimately Clinton handled the day well. She was able to combat well when questions were obviously political and/or designed to impact her 2016 campaign. Even her calm delivery of responses designed to attack the motivations of the questioner impressed me. (Appreciate this coming from someone usually very critical of Clinton.)

2. There was no... "What difference, at this point, does it make?!?!"... moment. At least not to the magnitude of that statement so long ago.

3. Republicans came off looking at desperate and hate filled as I expected. The goal was always to show that Clinton either is incompetent in the handling of Benghazi or involved in some elaborate cover up about their roles regarding Benghazi. Neither was proved.

4. There was no smoking gun, no single piece of evidence that summed up total responsibility for the whole thing on Clinton alone.

5. The interest in blaming the video was a negative mark on the Obama Administration as a whole.

6. We wasted millions in tax payer dollars on these hearings that ultimately have obtained no real "truth" as to who did what. Obviously mistakes were made, obviously things could have been handled better but we do have the ultimate fact that it is impossible to guarantee safety for those we place in harms way. In a way Clinton was right, they made decisions with what they had knowing some were not safe no matter what was added to the mix.

7. It was proven beyond any doubt that there is zero, and I mean zero, sincerity in doing something meaningful with these "hearings" for or offer something meaningful in information to the families of Stevens, Smith, Woods, and Doherty. That is the real source of sadness on this whole affair, Republicans did great damage to themselves proving this which hunt has more to do with Hillary running for 2016 than any sense of doing something for these families.

GunFora · Oct 23, 2015

MrT said:
I would contend that we did not learn anything substantially new. Pretty much every fact that was raised and hammered against Clinton was facts that we already knew and facts that were already addressed by previous Congressional Reports.

Here is a link to CNN which compiled 11 takeaways - one for each hour - to help start this discussion: 11 Benghazi takeaways: One for each hour - CNNPolitics.com

The biggest reveal that I see is that Mrs. Clinton had a communication with her daughter and with an Egyptian official wherein she blamed the attack on a premeditated attack, rather than the anti-muslim video. Mrs. Clinton responded to questions that these statements should be taken in the context of the "fog" of war and that, at the time, the exact intentions were unknown and thus, conflicting messages were made. Nearly all of these shortcomings were, of course, previously addressed in the 8 previous investigations.

The only other message that is likely to get picked up by Republicans is that Mrs. Clinton noted she was unsure whether or not she spoke with Mr. Stevens after he was sworn into office.

What did you learn yesterday?

At the very least we learned that Hillary knew it was a terrorist attack immediately yet she lied to the American people about it.

MrT · Oct 23, 2015

GunFora said:
At the very least we learned that Hillary knew it was a terrorist attack immediately yet she lied to the American people about it.

I know the distinction will be lost for many, but we learned that Hillary claimed to know the attack was terrorist related to two different individuals. She also claimed that it was protest related to several others. It takes a fairly partisan'd reading of the email to say that these two statements must be conflicting or that multiple conflicting reports during the fog of war of the time immediately after the attack to say that Hillary knew with absolute certainty that *any* contribution of blame to the video would be a lie.

GunFora · Oct 23, 2015

MrT said:
I know the distinction will be lost for many, but we learned that Hillary claimed to know the attack was terrorist related to two different individuals. She also claimed that it was protest related to several others. It takes a fairly partisan'd reading of the email to say that these two statements must be conflicting or that multiple conflicting reports during the fog of war of the time immediately after the attack to say that Hillary knew with absolute certainty that *any* contribution of blame to the video would be a lie.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said "immediately"...I'll replace that with "within moments".
She emailed Chelsea and others that night and told them it was a terror attack. Yet, she told the American people it was about a youtube video and even had the gall lie to the mother of Sean Smith at his funeral that the attack was over a video. Do you think she may have lied about it being over a youtube video because the fact that it was a terror attack would look bad for her?

beefheart · Oct 23, 2015

We learned just how pathetic and desperate the republicans are. They were as stupid and inept as they were during the Planned Parenthood hearings.

Complete oafs.

ttwtt78640 · Oct 23, 2015

What I saw was that no personal accountability for lax security leading to those 4 deaths was assigned to HRC or to anyone else. We knew that political spin was involved, yet that is neither illegal nor is it ever likely to become so. So long as congress critters are willing to accept the complete BS that nobody in the executive department was personally responsible for the lax security of US State Department personnel then nothing can or will be done to correct that basic underlying problem.

These dim witted congress critters still have not figured out that no law requires competent management or the completion of any specific mission (job?) by federal executive employees. Money was allocated by congress critters to an executive agency for the specific purpose of providing security for US diplomatic personnel overseas yet without any requirement that it be spent effectively. If, as a contractor, I accept funds from a customer for performing a specific job (material or labor draw) then I am legally expected (obligated?) to supply that material or perform that job - that is not true of any government executive agency or its personnel.

HRC was yet again successfully able to use the excuse that neither she nor any specific individual (by position or name) in the State Department was responsible for security related decisions made concerning US personnel in Benghazi, Libya. So long as that is the case then these hearings and investigations are a total waste of public resources.

joG · Oct 23, 2015

OrphanSlug said:
In no particular order...

1. Clinton was well prepared and/or coached. It took almost 11 hours to really get emotion out of her where it looked like they may trip her up, but ultimately Clinton handled the day well. She was able to combat well when questions were obviously political and/or designed to impact her 2016 campaign. Even her calm delivery of responses designed to attack the motivations of the questioner impressed me. (Appreciate this coming from someone usually very critical of Clinton.)

2. There was no... "What difference, at this point, does it make?!?!"... moment. At least not to the magnitude of that statement so long ago.

3. Republicans came off looking at desperate and hate filled as I expected. The goal was always to show that Clinton either is incompetent in the handling of Benghazi or involved in some elaborate cover up about their roles regarding Benghazi. Neither was proved.

4. There was no smoking gun, no single piece of evidence that summed up total responsibility for the whole thing on Clinton alone.

5. The interest in blaming the video was a negative mark on the Obama Administration as a whole.

6. We wasted millions in tax payer dollars on these hearings that ultimately have obtained no real "truth" as to who did what. Obviously mistakes were made, obviously things could have been handled better but we do have the ultimate fact that it is impossible to guarantee safety for those we place in harms way. In a way Clinton was right, they made decisions with what they had knowing some were not safe no matter what was added to the mix.

7. It was proven beyond any doubt that there is zero, and I mean zero, sincerity in doing something meaningful with these "hearings" for or offer something meaningful in information to the families of Stevens, Smith, Woods, and Doherty. That is the real source of sadness on this whole affair, Republicans did great damage to themselves proving this which hunt has more to do with Hillary running for 2016 than any sense of doing something for these families.

She was as good in the session as she is known to be in such circumstances of pressure, from what I have heard and seen. The use of private servers for confidential emails is much more interesting and I would certainly rather they had spent this amount of effort on the bribery suspicions at home on the plain. That baggage is the Nixon moment not a terror incident she didn't handle quite right.

GunFora · Oct 23, 2015

beefheart said:
We learned just how pathetic and desperate the republicans are. They were as stupid and inept as they were during the Planned Parenthood hearings.

Complete oafs.

We also learned how wicked smaht Elijah Cummings(D) is. :roll:

beefheart · Oct 23, 2015

GunFora said:
We also learned how wicked smaht Elijah Cummings(D) is. :roll:

Smart enough to tell everyone what a sham of a hearing this was.

GunFora · Oct 23, 2015

beefheart said:
Smart enough to tell everyone what a sham of a hearing this was.

Ok. With out being partisan, do you believe HRC lying to the American people was acceptable behavior?

Chomsky · Oct 23, 2015

Even Trey Gowdy admitted nothing new came-to-light in his immediate post-hearing interview, seemingly on the defensive.

Rep Jim Jordan echo'd the same in his interview. (perhaps his is a theme, justifying them to continue digging?)

The GOP Congress Critters also seemed on the defensive, since the media seems to be focusing on the GOP & their motives & mechanisms, rather than on Mrs. Clinton, who seemingly gave little testimony of concern.

I'm beginning to think this may have played-out.

I've seen comment claiming the GOP may have inadvertently given Mrs. Clinton a nationally televised 'Presidential Interview', and if so by most counts she seems to have passed. There may be some truth to this.

I'd also like to add:

From the bit I watched (the last several hours), I was very surprised to see the GOP seemed to be all 'over the place' - not acting cohesively. Each individual GOP Congress-person seemed to be on their own track, doing their own thing, throwing out points, and hoping for something to stick or resonate.

With Trey Gowdy's experience as a prosecutor and all the time they prepped, I really thought there would be a more cohesive narrative or plan - a beginning, middle, and conclusion; but none appeared.

They were very disorganized.

MrT · Oct 23, 2015

ttwtt78640 said:
What I saw was that no personal accountability for lax security leading to those 4 deaths was assigned to HRC or to anyone else. We knew that political spin was involved, yet that is neither illegal nor is it ever likely to become so. So long as congress critters are willing to accept the complete BS that nobody in the executive department was personally responsible for the lax security of US State Department personnel then nothing can or will be done to correct that basic underlying problem.

I would just note that both Hillary and President Obama claimed responsibility for their deaths...on multiple occasions. In fact, Hillary said this during the hearing yesterday,

Now, as I said in my opening statement, I take responsibility for what happened in Benghazi. I felt a responsibility for all 70,000 people working at the State Department in USAID. I take that very seriously...

You know, I've -- I would imagine I've thought more about what happened than all of you put together. I've lost more sleep than all of you put together. I have been wracking my brain about what more could have been done or should have been done.

And so, when I took responsibility, I took it as a challenge and an obligation to make sure, before I left the State Department, that what we could learn -- as I'm sure my predecessors did after Beirut and after Nairobi and Dar es Salaam and after all the other attacks on our facilities, I'm sure all of them -- Republican and Democrat alike -- especially where there was loss of American life -- said, "OK, what must we do better?

GunFora · Oct 23, 2015

MrT said:
I would just note that both Hillary and President Obama claimed responsibility for their deaths...on multiple occasions. In fact, Hillary said this during the hearing yesterday,

Awesome! What do you suggest for punishment? Impeachment of Obama? Jail time for Clinton?

natsb · Oct 23, 2015

We learned how sad and pathetic it is when partisans turn their head to protect their own.

I guess Hillary's lies and attempt to cover up was okay since only four people died and the image of successful mid east policy was at stake. My biggest concern from the hearings was that I can't figure out how people can throw that switch in their head. The switch that makes it okay if one of their own lies to them, but it is an atrocity if the opposition lies to them.

The other thing that was uncovered, well actually confirmed, is that the cover up is always worse than just telling the truth.

ttwtt78640 · Oct 23, 2015

MrT said:
I would just note that both Hillary and President Obama claimed responsibility for their deaths...on multiple occasions. In fact, Hillary said this during the hearing yesterday,

Are you kidding me? It does not take much "brain wracking" to decide that someone, by position or name, should be held accountable for providing adequate security for easily foreseeable events. If the agency head does not require that and then offers to "take responsibility" by blaming an internet video basically claiming all that was required to exceed the capacity of security forces (measures?) in place was an angry bunch of protestors then she should have resigned.

MrT · Oct 23, 2015

GunFora said:
Awesome! What do you suggest for punishment? Impeachment of Obama? Jail time for Clinton?

I am, and would be satisfied, with learning the lesson on how to prevent such an attack in the future. Do you also want to go back and jail GWB/his Sec of State and Clinton/his Sec of State at the time of the attacks on Beirut and after Nairobi and Dar es Salaam?

Born Free · Oct 23, 2015

OrphanSlug said:
5. The interest in blaming the video was a negative mark on the Obama Administration as a whole.

You glaze over this as though it's no big deal to lie to the American people. We now know proof certain that Hillary lied and that lie was promoted by Obama and Susan Rice to the American people. All in an effort to cover for Obama's reelection.

This is a huge deal and one of the audiences listening in on her testimony was the FBI. And who knows what they will dig up.

We learned that Hillary had more interest and communication with an outsider than she ever did with the Ambassador.

Last we leaned there was 600 request for security that were unanswered, and she claims they never hit her desk. This tells me she could care less about security of our people as she never made clear to her staff to keep her advised on such issues.

Hillary is a liar and is incompetent to hold any public office.

The GOP ads in the future will hammer this home to the American People. How you can support a person like Hillary who you know will lie to the American people for her own gain, is beyond me.

GunFora · Oct 23, 2015

MrT said:
I am, and would be satisfied, with learning the lesson on how to prevent such an attack in the future. Do you also want to go back and jail GWB/his Sec of State and Clinton/his Sec of State at the time of the attacks on Beirut and after Nairobi and Dar es Salaam?

The attacks in themselves are not reason to prosecute or impeach. It's the actions of GWB, Bubba, HRC are what needs to be investigated and punished if necessary.
ps...i'm Conservative, but not partisan. Any and every corrupt lying politician should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Dem, GOP....doesn't mean **** to me.

vesper · Oct 23, 2015

I'll tell you what I learned.......

That a State Department outpost she was responsible for the safety of all the members working for the State Department was viciously attacked and people died and others injured.

I learned over 600 requests for increased security by our people never reached Madam Secretary's desk.

I learned it got so bad that these security measures were not met that Chris Stevens wrote an email 'maybe I should seek help from another country."

I learned that Madam Secretary Clinton was well aware of the dangerous situation that had evolved in Libya with over 70 violent attacks which led to all other Western countries removing their people from the country due to the dangerous situation. All but the U.S......

I learned about the Secure Embassy Construction and Counterterrorism Act, which requires the Secretary of State to issue a waiver under two conditions: if the U.S. government personnel work in separate facilities, or if U.S. oversees facilities do not meet the security setback distances specified by the Bureau of Diplomatic Security. The law specifies that only the Secretary of State may sign these waivers, and that requirement is not to be delegated. And Madam Secretary Clinton did not issue such a waiver.

And I learned there was an email to her daughter telling Chelsea that it was a terrorist attack on the compound proving she knew full well the cause but turned around standing shoulder to shoulder with Obama and told the American people it was due to some unknown video on YouTube.

I learned a lot!~

American · Oct 23, 2015

Chomsky said:
Even Trey Gowdy admitted nothing new came-to-light in his immediate post-hearing interview, seemingly on the defensive.

Rep Jim Jordan echo'd the same in his interview. (perhaps his is a theme, justifying them to continue digging?)

The GOP Congress Critters also seemed on the defensive, since the media seems to be focusing on the GOP & their motives & mechanisms, rather than on Mrs. Clinton, who seemingly gave little testimony of concern.

I'm beginning to think this may have played-out.

I've seen comment claiming the GOP may have inadvertently given Mrs. Clinton a nationally televised 'Presidential Interview', and if so by most counts she seems to have passed. There may be some truth to this.

I'd also like to add:

From the bit I watched (the last several hours), I was very surprised to see the GOP seemed to be all 'over the place' - not acting cohesively. Each individual GOP Congress-person seemed to be on their own track, doing their own thing, throwing out points, and hoping for something to stick or resonate.

With Trey Gowdy's experience as a prosecutor and all the time they prepped, I really thought there would be a more cohesive narrative or plan - a beginning, middle, and conclusion; but none appeared.

They were very disorganized.

It wasn't a prosecution, although if he'd had more time no doubt in my mind he would have slamdunked Cummings. That mouthfoamer made a fool of himself throwing himself under the bus for Clinton. But he's a known leftwing hack, so no surprised he fell on his sword for the party.

American · Oct 23, 2015

vesper said:
I'll tell you what I learned.......

That a State Department outpost she was responsible for the safety of all the members working for the State Department was viciously attacked and people died and others injured.

I learned over 600 requests for increased security by our people never reached Madam Secretary's desk.

I learned it got so bad that these security measures were not met that Chris Stevens wrote an email 'maybe I should seek help from another country."

I learned that Madam Secretary Clinton was well aware of the dangerous situation that had evolved in Libya with over 70 violent attacks which led to all other Western countries removing their people from the country due to the dangerous situation. All but the U.S......

I learned about the Secure Embassy Construction and Counterterrorism Act, which requires the Secretary of State to issue a waiver under two conditions: if the U.S. government personnel work in separate facilities, or if U.S. oversees facilities do not meet the security setback distances specified by the Bureau of Diplomatic Security. The law specifies that only the Secretary of State may sign these waivers, and that requirement is not to be delegated. And Madam Secretary Clinton did not issue such a waiver.

And I learned there was an email to her daughter telling Chelsea that it was a terrorist attack on the compound proving she knew full well the cause but turned around standing shoulder to shoulder with Obama and told the American people it was due to some unknown video on YouTube.

I learned a lot!~

Well stated!

:applaud

OrphanSlug · Oct 23, 2015

Born Free said:
You glaze over this as though it's no big deal to lie to the American people. We now know proof certain that Hillary lied and that lie was promoted by Obama and Susan Rice to the American people. All in an effort to cover for Obama's reelection.

This is a huge deal and one of the audiences listening in on her testimony was the FBI. And who knows what they will dig up.

We learned that Hillary had more interest and communication with an outsider than she ever did with the Ambassador.

Last we leaned there was 600 request for security that were unanswered, and she claims they never hit her desk. This tells me she could care less about security of our people as she never made clear to her staff to keep her advised on such issues.

Hillary is a liar and is incompetent to hold any public office.

The GOP ads in the future will hammer this home to the American People. How you can support a person like Hillary who you know will lie to the American people for her own gain, is beyond me.

I did not glaze over it, and I clearly said I am not Hillary supporter. Don't lump me in with Hillary supporters just because I am not on your bandwagon of hate for her.

Born Free · Oct 23, 2015

OrphanSlug said:
I did not glaze over it, and I clearly said I am not Hillary supporter. Don't lump me in with Hillary supporters just because I am not on your bandwagon of hate for her.

I did not hate her before, but I do now that she lied to the American people and was part of the cover up with Susan Rice and Obama and clan all for Obama's reelection. She was all part of the conspiracy to cover up. Yeah I do hate her for that.

pbrauer · Oct 23, 2015

I learned just how pathetic the Republicans are, they would spend $4.6 million just to Hillary off the ticket so they could win by driving her poll numbers down. But it didn't work, it was the competition in her party that made her numbers go down. Stupid Republicans

Also learned Hillary can be calm and cool.
Time to shut this sham down.

What did we learn, Thursday, about Benghazi?

MrT

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...

GunFora

MrT

GunFora

beefheart

Ice Cream for Crow?

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

joG

GunFora

beefheart

Ice Cream for Crow?

GunFora

Chomsky

Social Democrat

MrT

GunFora

natsb

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

MrT

Born Free

GunFora

vesper

American

Trump Grump Whisperer

American

Trump Grump Whisperer

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...

Born Free

pbrauer