Discussion Thread: RabidAlpaca v. German Guy

[Redress]

RabidAlpaca and German Guy have decided to do a true debate. The topic is: Role of the Euro and EU. The length will be 1 opening post and 5 replies each. Starting time is today. RabidAlpaca will make the first post. This thread is for others to discuss the debate and after the debate a poll will be added so members can vote for a winner. Thank you to RabidAlpaca and German Guy for taking part in our first of the new True Debates.

 

[azgreg]

This is pretty cool. I think I'm going to enjoy this.

 

[MadLib]

Both of them are presenting their POV pretty intelligently right about now.

 

[azgreg]

Both of them are presenting their POV pretty intelligently right about now.

let me know when it comes to the point where they draw pistols. :2razz:

 

[DDD]

They seem to be taking their time. Benefit of the debate having post limitations rather than time limitations probably.

 

[iliveonramen]

It looks like it's shaping up to be an interesting debate!

 

[tosca1]

Wait!!! I have to get popcorn!

.....okay, ready!

 

[azgreg]

Wait!!! I have to get popcorn!

.....okay, ready!

 

[Peter Grimm]

You should change the name of this thread to the "Peanut Gallery."

 

[Fisher]

I find it interesting that GermanGuy is dancing around that the EU was envisioned to avoid another European World War but that it was the reunification of Germany that scared the crap out of the rest of Europe as to make them willing to go along with the plan.

 

[tosca1]

:lamo

That's so funny....especially the first one!

Are there any trailers? Where are the two? My popcorn's almost gone. :mrgreen:

 

[Oberon]

I find it interesting that GermanGuy is dancing around that the EU was envisioned to avoid another European World War but that it was the reunification of Germany that scared the crap out of the rest of Europe as to make them willing to go along with the plan.

Why was the rest of Europe scared by German reunification? Larger, supra-national trading blocs are the norm in history, whether they take the form of federations, empires, or alliances. Europe's economies would be enhanced more by common policies than 50 different, atomized nations based on purely ethnic lines and 50 different tariff and defense arrangements, all of which can be easily exploited by more organized blocs.

The Versailles Treaty exacerbated nationalism by creating 15 to 20 weak states that eventually became easy prey for German, French, Soviet,and English manipulations for the two decades leading to WW I, Part Two; atomization is hardly a recipe for political and economic stability, particularly during downturns..

 

[Fisher]

Why was the rest of Europe scared by German reunification? Larger, supra-national trading blocs are the norm in history, whether they take the form of federations, empires, or alliances. Europe's economies would be enhanced more by common policies than 50 different, atomized nations based on purely ethnic lines.

Well I think we are not supposed to go down that road I started on until the debate is over, but the economics may not have been the reason it happened......

 

[German guy]

I find it interesting that GermanGuy is dancing around that the EU was envisioned to avoid another European World War but that it was the reunification of Germany that scared the crap out of the rest of Europe as to make them willing to go along with the plan.

Sure, a major problem in that 19th century "multi-polar order" in Europe was the fact that Germany was so large -- too small to be a hegemon, but too large to meet the others on eyelevel.

But I am not sure if this is the right place to address it. I'll answer it if RabidAlpaca brings it up in our debate thread.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Sure, a major problem in that 19th century "multi-polar order" in Europe was the fact that Germany was so large -- too small to be a hegemon, but too large to meet the others on eyelevel.

But I am not sure if this is the right place to address it. I'll answer it if RabidAlpaca brings it up in our debate thread.

Just FYI, the admins are going to tell you that you can't post in this thread because you're part of the main debate.

 

[DiAnna]

I dunno about anyone else, but so far I'm impressed by both of them. They're scary good, lol!

 

[DDD]

Okay,

Second round went rather well. DeutchGuy is promoting EU as a single nation by modeling what has been proven to work such as that of USA. Unless Rabid finds issues that can severely shake the dream of a unified Europe (and I don't think he wants or would do that) then DeutchGuy's easy steps of "United and Evolving Europe" seem to work.

Whatever the wrongs in EU they can be better as long as there is an EU to defend itself from Russia and (not stated there) China, and other global interests. I like this attitude of "What hurts and does not kills you can only make one stronger."

Too early to say whose winning, but so far...

 

[humbolt]

Okay,

Second round went rather well. DeutchGuy is promoting EU as a single nation by modeling what has been proven to work such as that of USA. Unless Rabid finds issues that can severely shake the dream of a unified Europe (and I don't think he wants or would do that) then DeutchGuy's easy steps of "United and Evolving Europe" seem to work.

Whatever the wrongs in EU they can be better as long as there is an EU to defend itself from Russia and (not stated there) China, and other global interests. I like this attitude of "What hurts and does not kills you can only make one stronger."

Too early to say whose winning, but so far...

Good assessment. I do take issue, for the fun of it, with the bolded sentence. If I have my spleen removed, it will hurt, it probably won't kill me, but I doubt it'll make me stronger.

 

[tosca1]

I don't get this. Where is the debate?????

Never mind....I found it. :3oops:

 

[DDD]

Good assessment. I do take issue, for the fun of it, with the bolded sentence. If I have my spleen removed, it will hurt, it probably won't kill me, but I doubt it'll make me stronger.

Perhaps I'm too much into details, but why the appeal to fear and time is running out tactics?

I mean united Europe is a good idea just with that much. Why push it more with tactics?

We better be united cause Russia is there!! Sounds like King Julien's "Fossa is there!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz3X7jW8VEY

(Could only find the French version).

As for time is running out better make a quick decision tactic is an old one. You've probably seen it at the mall when "All's got to go for 30mis, hurry up and take it, even though it may be garbage."

So why resort to these tactics is what I am getting at? Is there anything hiding below them?

 

[humbolt]

Perhaps I'm too much into details, but why the appeal to fear and time is running out tactics?

I mean united Europe is a good idea just with that much. Why push it more with tactics?

We better be united cause Russia is there!! Sounds like King Julien's "Fossa is there!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz3X7jW8VEY

(Could only find the French version).

As for time is running out better make a quick decision tactic is an old one. You've probably seen it at the mall when "All's got to go for 30mis, hurry up and take it, even though it may be garbage."

So why resort to these tactics is what I am getting at? Is there anything hiding below them?

I do agree, and I'm all about the EU assuming a greater role in its own defense. I do think there are some serious currency issues tied to the weaker members, and I also am among those that believe there's a limited time for them to get the house in order, but that's a single issue and it can be resolved. I just wonder if it will be resolved before cracks start appearing in the whole structure. We'll see. I wouldn't count Mr. Alpaca out just yet. It's very early in the debate, and these two seem to have done their homework.

 

[DDD]

I do agree, and I'm all about the EU assuming a greater role in its own defense. I do think there are some serious currency issues tied to the weaker members, and I also am among those that believe there's a limited time for them to get the house in order, but that's a single issue and it can be resolved. I just wonder if it will be resolved before cracks start appearing in the whole structure. We'll see. I wouldn't count Mr. Alpaca out just yet. It's very early in the debate, and these two seem to have done their homework.

If you count that as "homework." Anyone can state their opinion, but where are the references? Reference per statement is "good homework accomplishment" for me.

 

[humbolt]

If you count that as "homework." Anyone can state their opinion, but where are the references? Reference per statement is "good homework accomplishment" for me.

Well, their knowledge of the subject is more expansive than mine, so I count that as superior knowledge - at least when compared to me, which may not mean much in the greater view. I also tend to give some weight to originality, without regard to influences. Published material is sometimes impossibly biased and shallow even though it may be given gravitas in the intellectual community, i.e. there are "good" references, and some not so good, and one has to have some familiarity with those references in order to make a judgement. I would have to read many of them, and that's a time consuming effort I, personally, cannot commit to.

 

[Fisher]

So is this debate over yet? They both seem to have petered off.

 

[Redress]

So is this debate over yet? They both seem to have petered off.

It is the weekend. Give them time.