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Thread: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic Law

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    Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic Law

    Rally against Beijing?s interpretation of Basic Law ends as police with batons chase protesters from area | South China Morning Post

    Traffic has resumed on Des Voeux Road, marking the end of a tense stand-off between police and protesters outside the central government’s liaison office in Sai Wan.

    The clash between officers and the 4,000-strong crowd gathered in the area to protest against Beijing’s intervention in the oath-taking saga saw the use of pepper spray by police, while one officer was allegedly injured by protesters hurling bricks.

    By 1am on Monday, at least 700 officers were deployed to the site, with several hundred more on standby, a police source told the Post. Officers charged at demonstraters, forcing them to leave the area.

    In face of the “unfavourable situation”, Demosisto, Student Fight for Democracy, the League of Social Democrats and the Labour Party announced that the rally was over and urged protesters to depart to “avoid sacrifice”.

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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    All this struggling is going to be pointless in the end.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Basten View Post
    All this struggling is going to be pointless in the end.
    I'm just wondering if any of this will escalate.

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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    It seems there will be an escalating situation, possibly a repeat of Occupy, with increasingly heavy-handed action from Beijing. No thanks to these two anarchist idiots.

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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    The protesting demonstrators are the same, with even more of those who in 2004 stopped Beijing cold from imposing its mainland school curriculum on Hong Kong. Many present protesters were in middle school back then while successfully taking to the streets to stifle Beijing's psychopath mind control dictators.

    The mainland curriculum indoctrinates that democracy is evil and that one party rule by the Chinese Communist Party is the only way. That Taiwan is a province of the CCP China.

    Currently CCP Dictators in Beijing have veto over who may run for the Iran-style democracy in HKG. More than enough people of HKG want universal suffrage, i.e., no veto power by any outside or foreign rule such as from Beijing.

    Millennials in HKG who were born when HKG returned to CCP Dictators' sovereignty disapprove of a foreign and alien entity, Beijing, ruling over HKG. They want independence. The only difference among 'em is that some want a public referendum in ten years while the more radical want one it two years.

    No more Tiananmen Massacres either, so CCP Dictators have lost their final firewall against democracy in HKG.

    Bye-bye Beijing, sooner or later.
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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    The protesting demonstrators are the same, with even more of those who in 2004 stopped Beijing cold from imposing its mainland school curriculum on Hong Kong. Many present protesters were in middle school back then while successfully taking to the streets to stifle Beijing's psychopath mind control dictators.
    I don't understand how learning Chinese history, especially when most of the educators and academics are anti-Communists, had anything to do with brainwashing. It's like complaining about learning US history.

    And you are correct. It's the same bunch of fools that have offered no solutions to any social and economic issues, except bitch, bitch, bitch. No matter what the government does, it's wrong...yet they never give any workable alternatives.

    For example, HK Disneyland. It's these same people that said, WTF are we giving so many incentives to Disney to build a park here, and we have no stake. So the HK gov. takes the majority stake. Now, when both partners are working on ponying up money for the park's expansion, they bitch yet again. What's the solution? Yes, yet more short-sighted welfare BS. Give each HKer 5k HKD instead of developing the park.

    Or the HK airport. 0 bitching by these people when all that money was spent on UK companies. Then bitch constantly when the entire fkn world knows that the HK airport has been at capacity for years, and there is a need for a third runway. What's the solution? Allow HK's airport to devolve into a second-rate facility, while even Shenzhen's airport is growing in both passenger and cargo capacity? Actually, no. Again, 0 solutions, all bitch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    The mainland curriculum indoctrinates that democracy is evil and that one party rule by the Chinese Communist Party is the only way. That Taiwan is a province of the CCP China.
    Not true, and yes, Taiwan is a province of China. Every major nation recognizes it as such, including the US, the EU, the Vatican, etc etc. It may be "independent" for all practical purposes, but it's a fact that it is a province of China. Claiming California isn't a state just because they think very differently from the rest of the US heartland doesn't make it independent. Even the Taiwanese (except for Tsai's party) recognize this fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Currently CCP Dictators in Beijing have veto over who may run for the Iran-style democracy in HKG. More than enough people of HKG want universal suffrage, i.e., no veto power by any outside or foreign rule such as from Beijing.
    No. There is an election committee (think electoral college) that pre screens people, allowing them to run/not run for CE. There is no "Iran-style" democracy in HK because HK doesn't have democracy, not even for the Legislature. Is it a good solution? Not necessarily. But not every HKer wants "universal suffrage", since the frigging localists don't even know exactly what that entails. They're the ones that shot down one-man, one-vote for CE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Millennials in HKG who were born when HKG returned to CCP Dictators' sovereignty disapprove of a foreign and alien entity, Beijing, ruling over HKG. They want independence. The only difference among 'em is that some want a public referendum in ten years while the more radical want one it two years.
    I know a lot of millennials that are not against Chinese sovereignty, since it's neither a "foreign" nor "alien" entity. And most people don't want independence. They just want to maintain the present freedoms, and constantly work towards improving the economy and the livability of the city. Stuff like occupy and anti-mainland Chinese riots don't help. How would New York do as a city if New Yorkers were running around, telling the rest of the US to get the **** out? Not very good, I would imagine.

    And a public referendum is a waste of resources, a waste of time, and doesn't mean **** because it is non-binding legally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    No more Tiananmen Massacres either, so CCP Dictators have lost their final firewall against democracy in HKG.
    I fail to see how Tiananmen has any relation to this, as (so it seems) you already know that HKers increasingly don't give a flying **** about that incident, what with fewer and fewer attendees to the stupid traffic-busting vigil every year @ Victoria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Bye-bye Beijing, sooner or later.
    Probably won't happen within our lifetimes.

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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    +++++++++++++


    Quote Originally Posted by Battalion View Post
    I don't understand how learning Chinese history, especially when most of the educators and academics are anti-Communists, had anything to do with brainwashing. It's like complaining about learning US history.

    And you are correct. It's the same bunch of fools that have offered no solutions to any social and economic issues, except bitch, bitch, bitch. No matter what the government does, it's wrong...yet they never give any workable alternatives.

    For example, HK Disneyland. It's these same people that said, WTF are we giving so many incentives to Disney to build a park here, and we have no stake. So the HK gov. takes the majority stake. Now, when both partners are working on ponying up money for the park's expansion, they bitch yet again. What's the solution? Yes, yet more short-sighted welfare BS. Give each HKer 5k HKD instead of developing the park.

    Or the HK airport. 0 bitching by these people when all that money was spent on UK companies. Then bitch constantly when the entire fkn world knows that the HK airport has been at capacity for years, and there is a need for a third runway. What's the solution? Allow HK's airport to devolve into a second-rate facility, while even Shenzhen's airport is growing in both passenger and cargo capacity? Actually, no. Again, 0 solutions, all bitch.



    Not true, and yes, Taiwan is a province of China. Every major nation recognizes it as such, including the US, the EU, the Vatican, etc etc. It may be "independent" for all practical purposes, but it's a fact that it is a province of China. Claiming California isn't a state just because they think very differently from the rest of the US heartland doesn't make it independent. Even the Taiwanese (except for Tsai's party) recognize this fact.



    No. There is an election committee (think electoral college) that pre screens people, allowing them to run/not run for CE. There is no "Iran-style" democracy in HK because HK doesn't have democracy, not even for the Legislature. Is it a good solution? Not necessarily. But not every HKer wants "universal suffrage", since the frigging localists don't even know exactly what that entails. They're the ones that shot down one-man, one-vote for CE.



    I know a lot of millennials that are not against Chinese sovereignty, since it's neither a "foreign" nor "alien" entity. And most people don't want independence. They just want to maintain the present freedoms, and constantly work towards improving the economy and the livability of the city. Stuff like occupy and anti-mainland Chinese riots don't help. How would New York do as a city if New Yorkers were running around, telling the rest of the US to get the **** out? Not very good, I would imagine.

    And a public referendum is a waste of resources, a waste of time, and doesn't mean **** because it is non-binding legally.



    I fail to see how Tiananmen has any relation to this, as (so it seems) you already know that HKers increasingly don't give a flying **** about that incident, what with fewer and fewer attendees to the stupid traffic-busting vigil every year @ Victoria.



    Probably won't happen within our lifetimes.

    California and New York City are not Taiwan or Hong Kong.

    Of course not all millennials favor HKG independence from the alien rulers in Beijing. The HKG Umbrella Movement and the Sunflower Movement in Taiwan have become solidly connected. HKG Umbrella leaders to include members travel to Taiwan for democracy conferences with Sunflower leaders and members, to include democracy advocates from throughout southeast Asian countries, such as Thailand which is currently under a military-monarchy dictatorship. All of 'em conferring in Taiwan are secure and free.

    Taiwan has just recently swept into government for the first time the pro-independence Democratic Progressive Party in both the presidency and the Parliament, so your attempt to disparage President Hsai Ing-wei is the same flailing and failing as your attempts to analogise California and NYC to Taiwan and HKG.

    The independence referendum will occur in HKG. As I'd posted, some independence advocates want it in ten years, others want it in two years. Ten years sound good to me because time and teach-ins will be a vital part of making the referendum a (great) success.

    Your post that, you are correct. It's the same bunch of fools is not my statement. That is your condescending CCP mischaracterization of the protesters and of those who advocate HKG independence from their alien rulers in Beijing.

    Bye-bye Beijing, sooner or later.
    Stephen Bannon: Darkness is good. Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan.
    That’s power. It only helps us when they get it wrong. When they’re
    blind to who we are and what we’re doing.

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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    Your denial of the Tiananmen Square Massacre is consistent with the absolute and unforgiving Beijing Party line that the slaughter of the unarmed innocents by the People's Liberation Army in 1989 is not discussed, not in the books, not in the media, not permitted.

    HKG residents by the hundreds of thousands gather each June 4th to mourn but to honor and celebrate those who held the Square against their dictator tyrants with their murderous army till the end. Hongkongers followed it closely then, minute by minute, and the tyrant dictators in Beijing and Tiananmen are in the forefront of the minds of Hongkongers.

    Yet all you can say in the pathetic post is the falsehood that the June 4th observance numbers are dwindling annually. They are not, as the Umbrella Movement is new and very much alive, with more Hongkongers moving to it going forward against the tyrants in Beijing.

    Bye-bye Beijing, sooner or later.
    Stephen Bannon: Darkness is good. Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan.
    That’s power. It only helps us when they get it wrong. When they’re
    blind to who we are and what we’re doing.

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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    California and New York City are not Taiwan or Hong Kong.
    Actually, the basic premise is the same. Taiwan is a province ("state") of the PRC. Hong Kong is a SAR of the PRC. Both belong to the PRC, which is recognized, again, by every major nation on the globe. I would argue that Taiwan is basically independent, and should be given their autonomy based on a vote by the Taiwanese. But that's another issue. You can argue all you want that Taiwan or HK does not belong to China...it doesn't change the fact that both are recognized as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Of course not all millennials favor HKG independence from the alien rulers in Beijing. The HKG Umbrella Movement and the Sunflower Movement in Taiwan have become solidly connected. HKG Umbrella leaders to include members travel to Taiwan for democracy conferences with Sunflower leaders and members, to include democracy advocates from throughout southeast Asian countries, such as Thailand which is currently under a military-monarchy dictatorship. All of 'em conferring in Taiwan are secure and free.
    You're right, nothing wrong with them expressing their opinion, but trying to draw support for independence in foreign countries is a big no no. I don't think you understand how negatively the Umbrella Movement is viewed here in Hong Kong, not just among the general populace, but by the people in power in China. I fail to see how doing these kinds of conferences can affect any sort of change, except piss people off and ensure that there are further crackdowns on HKer's freedoms. Martin Lee has been doing the same **** for decades, with 0 results, and 0 benefits to the livelihoods of HK citizens. So, pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Taiwan has just recently swept into government for the first time the pro-independence Democratic Progressive Party in both the presidency and the Parliament, so your attempt to disparage President Hsai Ing-wei is the same flailing and failing as your attempts to analogise California and NYC to Taiwan and HKG.
    Then let's just end the charade. Why hasn't Taiwan ever voted on independence from China, instead opting for the status quo? You and I both know why. Independence is a non-issue and a non-starter for the PRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    The independence referendum will occur in HKG. As I'd posted, some independence advocates want it in ten years, others want it in two years. Ten years sound good to me because time and teach-ins will be a vital part of making the referendum a (great) success.
    Again, a referendum in HK is meaningless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Your post that, you are correct. It's the same bunch of fools is not my statement. That is your condescending CCP mischaracterization of the protesters and of those who advocate HKG independence from their alien rulers in Beijing.
    I stand by that statement. They are fools. They have done nothing positive for the city except for bitch about not having "universal suffrage". And again, no matter what you wish, the "overlords" in Beijing are not an alien entity. The whole basis of HK is as a special administrative region of the PRC. Can't get around that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Your denial of the Tiananmen Square Massacre is consistent with the absolute and unforgiving Beijing Party line that the slaughter of the unarmed innocents by the People's Liberation Army in 1989 is not discussed, not in the books, not in the media, not permitted.
    When have I denied it occurred?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    HKG residents by the hundreds of thousands gather each June 4th to mourn but to honor and celebrate those who held the Square against their dictator tyrants with their murderous army till the end. Hongkongers followed it closely then, minute by minute, and the tyrant dictators in Beijing and Tiananmen are in the forefront of the minds of Hongkongers.
    I can agree to disagree with alot of your statements, but please don't lie. Organizers themselves put the figure this year at 100,000, police estimated 21,800. An extremely different number than the "hundreds of thousands" you claim. And frankly, most HKers don't give a **** about June 4. Everyone would rather work towards a better life. There are more articles about Joe Lau then June 4, yet you claim it is in the forefront of people's minds.

    And again, it is true the June 4th vigil attendance numbers have been declining annually. Read the news?

    As far as the Umbrella Movement, I don't see "more Hongkongers" moving to it by the day. The movement has already splintered into the various localist factions, one of which just shot themselves in the foot.

    You seem to care about this issue more so than most. From HK, or living in HK? If you're in expatria, then I can understand your lack of knowledge about what's been going on. If you're here, frankly that is quite inexcusable.

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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    Quote Originally Posted by Battalion View Post
    Actually, the basic premise is the same. Taiwan is a province ("state") of the PRC. Hong Kong is a SAR of the PRC. Both belong to the PRC, which is recognized, again, by every major nation on the globe. I would argue that Taiwan is basically independent, and should be given their autonomy based on a vote by the Taiwanese. But that's another issue. You can argue all you want that Taiwan or HK does not belong to China...it doesn't change the fact that both are recognized as such.



    You're right, nothing wrong with them expressing their opinion, but trying to draw support for independence in foreign countries is a big no no. I don't think you understand how negatively the Umbrella Movement is viewed here in Hong Kong, not just among the general populace, but by the people in power in China. I fail to see how doing these kinds of conferences can affect any sort of change, except piss people off and ensure that there are further crackdowns on HKer's freedoms. Martin Lee has been doing the same **** for decades, with 0 results, and 0 benefits to the livelihoods of HK citizens. So, pointless.



    Then let's just end the charade. Why hasn't Taiwan ever voted on independence from China, instead opting for the status quo? You and I both know why. Independence is a non-issue and a non-starter for the PRC.



    Again, a referendum in HK is meaningless.



    I stand by that statement. They are fools. They have done nothing positive for the city except for bitch about not having "universal suffrage". And again, no matter what you wish, the "overlords" in Beijing are not an alien entity. The whole basis of HK is as a special administrative region of the PRC. Can't get around that.



    When have I denied it occurred?



    I can agree to disagree with alot of your statements, but please don't lie. Organizers themselves put the figure this year at 100,000, police estimated 21,800. An extremely different number than the "hundreds of thousands" you claim. And frankly, most HKers don't give a **** about June 4. Everyone would rather work towards a better life. There are more articles about Joe Lau then June 4, yet you claim it is in the forefront of people's minds.

    And again, it is true the June 4th vigil attendance numbers have been declining annually. Read the news?

    As far as the Umbrella Movement, I don't see "more Hongkongers" moving to it by the day. The movement has already splintered into the various localist factions, one of which just shot themselves in the foot.

    You seem to care about this issue more so than most. From HK, or living in HK? If you're in expatria, then I can understand your lack of knowledge about what's been going on. If you're here, frankly that is quite inexcusable.

    The post and the final paragraph are a classic Chinese lecturing and scolding. It is in the culture of the Chinese to be such, while some "Chinese Gordon" types of (foreign) devils also adopt the trait, loudly and belligerently in their daily carryings on.

    The new and fresh Umbrella Movement in HKG has resulted in the old line of pan-democracy legislators and activists voluntarily stepping aside or out. The "new blood" of the millennials and other democracy advocates has a radically and fundamentally different dimension and depth -- and a strident advocacy the original generation post-1997 handover never could have.

    Umbrella Movement co-leader Nathan Law became at 23 the youngest elected member of the HKG Legislative Council has enough democracy advocates as Legco members to veto anything proposed by Beijing. Next comes the chief executive position which can only be secured by Hongkongers for Hongkongers by adoption of universal suffrage by referendum next year.



    You say I know a lot about HKG, which is both generous of you and also true. But it is also fact that 98.9% of all Chinese of the Mainland are 100% taken that a (foreign) devil knows anything at all about anything. The Mainland China culture is sub-global in this vital respect. It is in a severe deficit and it has a serious deficiency of consciousness, awareness, knowledge per se. HKG is far superior to the Mainland in this vital respect.


    Umbrella Movement principal leaders from left, Joshua Wong, Nathan Law, Hong Federation of Students chairman Alex Chow.


    In respect of Taiwan, the fact is Taiwan functions domestically as a sovereign country. It's international sovereignty is infringed by the CCP Dictators in Beijing. However, the CCP Dictators in Beijing cannot take control of Taiwan nor can CCP effectively influence Taiwan now that the DDP are in absolute power there.
    Last edited by Tangmo; 11-30-16 at 03:03 AM.
    Stephen Bannon: Darkness is good. Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan.
    That’s power. It only helps us when they get it wrong. When they’re
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