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Thread: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic Law

  1. #11
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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    The post and the final paragraph are a classic Chinese lecturing and scolding. It is in the culture of the Chinese to be such, while some "Chinese Gordon" types of (foreign) devils also adopt the trait, loudly and belligerently in their daily carryings on...
    I'll just touch on a few points.

    1. The pan-democrats did not "voluntarily" step aside. Some lost seats in the legislature due to "Operation Thunderbolt", started by Benny Tai, academic and co-founder of the Occupy Central movement. What it entailed was polling on votes by Tai and his team, then mass whatsapp/facebook texting to supporters to switch their votes from what were deemed "safe" traditional pan-dems to localists, in the hopes both pan dems and localists getting seats. It backfired immensely, as some traditional pan-dems lost seats, basically trading pan-democrats for localists in the legislature, further losing seats due to the oath fiasco, with possibly more to come.

    2. Again, all referendums are non-binding under the Basic Law. So either side, including the pro-BJ government or legislators, can hold referendums, but they don't mean squat in this context. It's more or less a general poll. Hillary doesn't win the presidential election because a poll shows she won. The only possibility that a referendum would hold any legal sway is if the government issues a policy that follows such a referendum, and it is approved by Beijing. Which won't happen. Seriously, stop harping on about referendums...this isn't the UK.

    3. Most of us have seen more than enough of those three imbeciles. No need to post their pics.

    4. You're right, in all respects, Taiwan basically functions as a sovereign nation. But it doesn't change the fact that it is considered a province of China by every major nation on the globe, the UN, the Vatican, the Orthodox Church, and every major Imam of Sunni / Shiite Islam. Hell, almost half of the Taiwanese themselves consider Taiwan as a part of China. They just think Taiwan's system should be used throughout China, and dislike the CCP. In all respects, Taiwan's "sovereignty" is not infringed upon at all by the PRC, as it's technically not a nation. You could argue that the Philippines, Vietnam, or Singapore are undergoing infringement on their sovereignty, but that's another issue.

    There's nothing any of us can say to change that except a declaration of independence by Taiwan, which has not been done, and will not be done, probably in our lifetimes.

    The PRC can effectively take control of Taiwan, and constantly influences it through geopolitical and economic measures, which has been happening the past decades. They have just held back from taking the final step, which is a civil war. This is something that no one wants to see, hence this dancing around on this issue.

    Even the US has stated that any preemptive strike by China would necessitate it coming to Taiwan's defense. But any unilateral declaration of independence by Taiwan, and the US would be free of it's obligations. There's a reason the previous DDP leader, Chen Shui Bian, and Tsai, have both never declared independence, even though they both run on such platforms.

    Unlike our current president, everyone and their mother knows the CCP have a definite red line that they will never allow to be crossed in regards to Taiwan. The people in charge of China are very smart, but also cunning, and to be frank, ruthless, and willing to go to extremes. Any so-called declaration of independence by Taiwan will result in a huge regional and international crises. The PRC would rather bomb Taiwan into the East Asian Afghanistan in order to keep them from separating, the economy and international relations be damned. In this respect, they are much more direct and harsh than even Putin.

    Plans have been in place, and continuously developed, for this scenario. White papers have hinted at the use of mass conventional missiles, smart bombs and satellite guided weapons, nuclear submarines with short-range ICBMs (including the possibility of chemical warheads), and spies and defectors taking out Taiwanese defenses and civil infrastructure. A simultaneous freeze of all Taiwanese assets in the PRC (which is a substantial part of its economy), with a mass of infantry and equipment crossing the straits at Fujian numbering in the tens of millions, planned to at least double that of the Taiwan population. Shooting down all military AND civilian aircraft entering or leaving Taiwan, that refuses to rerout and land in China.

    They are willing to basically annihilate Taiwan in order to maintain control. So what is the point of harping about this issue? Either Taiwan gains enough strength as an individual territory to challenge the PRC (too small, too relatively poor, too isolated ), or the PRC itself changes, and the next generation of more open minded, Western-educated leaders open up and work with Taiwan together on this.

  2. #12
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    Re: Another mass protest in Hong Kong following Beijing's new interpretation of Basic

    Quote Originally Posted by Battalion View Post
    I'll just touch on a few points.


    <<snip>>

    Unlike our current president, everyone and their mother knows the CCP have a definite red line that they will never allow to be crossed in regards to Taiwan. The people in charge of China are very smart, but also cunning, and to be frank, ruthless, and willing to go to extremes. Any so-called declaration of independence by Taiwan will result in a huge regional and international crises. The PRC would rather bomb Taiwan into the East Asian Afghanistan in order to keep them from separating, the economy and international relations be damned. In this respect, they are much more direct and harsh than even Putin.

    Plans have been in place, and continuously developed, for this scenario. White papers have hinted at the use of mass conventional missiles, smart bombs and satellite guided weapons, nuclear submarines with short-range ICBMs (including the possibility of chemical warheads), and spies and defectors taking out Taiwanese defenses and civil infrastructure. A simultaneous freeze of all Taiwanese assets in the PRC (which is a substantial part of its economy), with a mass of infantry and equipment crossing the straits at Fujian numbering in the tens of millions, planned to at least double that of the Taiwan population. Shooting down all military AND civilian aircraft entering or leaving Taiwan, that refuses to rerout and land in China.

    They are willing to basically annihilate Taiwan in order to maintain control. So what is the point of harping about this issue? Either Taiwan gains enough strength as an individual territory to challenge the PRC (too small, too relatively poor, too isolated ), or the PRC itself changes, and the next generation of more open minded, Western-educated leaders open up and work with Taiwan together on this.


    The new Trump and his advisers policies concerning the CCP Dictators in Beijing are beginning to require their own catalogue. CCP Boyz in Beijing are now established as a competitor against the USA in every respect.

    It is dangerous that CCP Fanboyz focus the way you do in your post on CCP military and armed suppression contingencies while ignoring the awesome U.S. military and intelligence agencies present in the region. Taiwan itself is a humongous source of intelligence information about everything on the Mainland. HKG is also a human resource but HKG is equally as inspirational a point of democracy, liberty, freedoms as are Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Australia/NZ and several of the struggling democracies of Asean in SE Asia.

    Consider as just one instance of the limits of CCP military contingency planning, the PLA Navy has no direct access route to the western Pacific. PLA armed forces starting with the Navy are confined to the shallow waters of the continental shelf, to include in the SCS. Japan and USA control the Miyako Strait between Taiwan and Japan, and USA controls the northeast passage from the SCS between the Philippines and Taiwan. For the PLA Navy to access the western Pacific it must sail up past the Korean peninsula to traverse past Russia and circle around the northernmost islands of Japan...it other words, forget it. CCP Navy is trapped in the shallow continental waters of its coastal areas which make it completely and entirely a sitting duck for US armed forces attack. A reverse Pearl Harbor but involving the USA-Japan against the PLA Navy et al.

    The post is in this respect dangerously risky to think only of CCP possible options in the region, whether concerning HKG, Taiwan, Japan, North Korea or all of the them to include several more.
    "A republic ma'm if you can keep it."

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