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Ratify the Trans-Pacific Partnership

Jack Hays

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Free trade enriches all participants.

Ratify the Trans-Pacific Partnership


The 12-nation agreement would benefit millions of people.



THE OBAMA administration released the full text of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement at 4 a.m. on Nov. 5 — and it did not take long for critics to pass judgment. Having previously (and hyperbolically) taken the administration to task for negotiating the 12-nation deal in secret, they promptly denounced the actual text as a job-destroying sellout to corporations that threatens the environment, human rights and health. “In the end the TPP was worse than we thought it would be,” Rep. Mark Pocan (D-Wis.) declared, in a news release issued within eight hours of the 4,500-page document’s release.
We do not absorb quite as quickly as Mr. Pocan, but we have now gone through the TPP’s reams of legalese, which, ponderous as they may be, probably bear still more inspection in the days ahead — by the media, interest groups and Congress, which will have to pass the ultimate judgment. Like the critics, we see no big surprises. Where we part ways with them, of course, is in our view that the now-public agreement is, as advertised, a probable net plus for the United States and the Pacific Rim as a whole.
Lost in much of the debate, but eye-glazingly evident in the document’s massive tables, is its central purpose: to slash or eliminate 18,000 tariffs on goods flowing among the United States, Japan, Malaysia, Vietnam, New Zealand and seven other countries. This is especially important with regard to Japan, which has never before entertained so much discussion of its notorious protectionism. We would have preferred even greater reductions in Japan’s tariffs, to take effect even more swiftly (though the text does call for absolutely no tariffs on bats, rodents, crocodiles and alligators!). Yet Japan’s acceptance of lower beef tariffs and increased importation of milk and rice represents genuine change that will benefit U.S. farmers even as it helps Prime Minister Shinzo Abe shake up his country’s moribund agricultural sector. . . .
 
Lost in much of the debate, but eye-glazingly evident in the document’s massive tables, is its central purpose: to slash or eliminate 18,000 tariffs on goods flowing among the United States, Japan, Malaysia, Vietnam, New Zealand and seven other countries

That's why people really hate it.
 
Does the TPP say ANYTHING about currency manipulation?


Or does it basically just hand over the keys to the kingdom, and asks, please please please, no scratches?
 
Read the OP article. That's covered.

But not. It simply states that no countries would accept the deal if it prevented them from manipulating their currency to aggressively penalize imports, and the deal is WITH nations that have, and continue, to do this very thing. Sorry, but no dice for me. All this deal will do is make it even easier to bypass the legal protections that built the middle class in this country, and devalue our goods overseas. Naturally, the wealthy will get wealthier in the process, ergo, you, and most other good conservative folks will love it. It's not even to the ultimate benefit to the US! It's going to help OTHER countries more than it helps us, just like previous trade agreements. It's just a way top drag us down a little, and raise other countries up a little.
 
But not. It simply states that no countries would accept the deal if it prevented them from manipulating their currency to aggressively penalize imports, and the deal is WITH nations that have, and continue, to do this very thing. Sorry, but no dice for me. All this deal will do is make it even easier to bypass the legal protections that built the middle class in this country, and devalue our goods overseas. Naturally, the wealthy will get wealthier in the process, ergo, you, and most other good conservative folks will love it. It's not even to the ultimate benefit to the US! It's going to help OTHER countries more than it helps us, just like previous trade agreements. It's just a way top drag us down a little, and raise other countries up a little.

". . . Complaints regarding currency ma*nipu*la*tion are characteristic of many objections to the TPP in that they essentially accuse the agreement of failing to solve problems — human rights, health, climate change — that trade deals are not intended, or even well-suited, to solve. It is true, of course, that trade affects all those areas and is affected by them. And the TPP, to a far greater degree than previous pacts, tries to account for that fact. But at the end of the day, it is an agreement that seeks to facilitate the free flow of goods, services and investment, to the mutual benefit of hundreds of millions of people. That is the core purpose on which the TPP should ultimately be judged and, we hope, ratified."
 
". . . Complaints regarding currency ma*nipu*la*tion are characteristic of many objections to the TPP in that they essentially accuse the agreement of failing to solve problems — human rights, health, climate change — that trade deals are not intended, or even well-suited, to solve. It is true, of course, that trade affects all those areas and is affected by them. And the TPP, to a far greater degree than previous pacts, tries to account for that fact. But at the end of the day, it is an agreement that seeks to facilitate the free flow of goods, services and investment, to the mutual benefit of hundreds of millions of people. That is the core purpose on which the TPP should ultimately be judged and, we hope, ratified."

And just like TAXES work in this country to help affect THOSE problems, trade is an excellent tool on an international scale to help address the problems I, and apparently many others, have raised.


Face it, this is a deal aimed at enriching a select minority of people in the world, at the EXPENSE of the very people that have MADE those select few so select. It is short sighted in the extreme, and is just one more step hurtling us towards an inevitable conclusion that I PROMISE you, that select few you are so hell bent on enriching, are NOT going to like very much.

Ask yourself this question...who in the US does this benefit the most? Middle class workers, the engines of our economy? The poor? Or the wealthy? You can make the misguided supply side argument that enriching the owner class will in turn enrich the workers, and ipso facto, it is the workers that benefit, but frankly, if you still believe in trickle down economics despite the MOUNTAINS of evidence against it, we simply will not be able to continue this conversation in any meaningfully constructive manner.

At the end of the day, you can't REASON someone out of a position that they themselves did not REASON themselves into.
 
And just like TAXES work in this country to help affect THOSE problems, trade is an excellent tool on an international scale to help address the problems I, and apparently many others, have raised.


Face it, this is a deal aimed at enriching a select minority of people in the world, at the EXPENSE of the very people that have MADE those select few so select. It is short sighted in the extreme, and is just one more step hurtling us towards an inevitable conclusion that I PROMISE you, that select few you are so hell bent on enriching, are NOT going to like very much.

Ask yourself this question...who in the US does this benefit the most? Middle class workers, the engines of our economy? The poor? Or the wealthy? You can make the misguided supply side argument that enriching the owner class will in turn enrich the workers, and ipso facto, it is the workers that benefit, but frankly, if you still believe in trickle down economics despite the MOUNTAINS of evidence against it, we simply will not be able to continue this conversation in any meaningfully constructive manner.

At the end of the day, you can't REASON someone out of a position that they themselves did not REASON themselves into.

Free trade makes all our economies more efficient and productive, and benefits us all. No trickle down required.
 
Free trade makes all our economies more efficient and productive, and benefits us all. No trickle down required.

But it doesn't. See, like, all of human history prior to governments imposing regulations on things like...trade?
 
Ah but it does.

Ah but it doesn't. You see, when you say free trade, what you REALLY mean is, free MARKET. And by free market, you mean, get rid of regulation, remove protections for weaker bargaining partners, etc.

Am I correct?
 
But it doesn't. See, like, all of human history prior to governments imposing regulations on things like...trade?

  1. [h=3]The Benefits of Free Trade: Addressing Key Myths|Mercatus[/h]mercatus.org/.../benefits-free-trade-addressing-key-myth...

    Mercatus Center


    Apr 20, 2015 - This is understandable: the benefits of free international trade are often diffuse and hard to see, while the benefits of shielding specific groups ...



    [h=3]Benefits of Free Trade | Economics Help[/h]www.economicshelp.org › International Trade




    The benefits of free trade include: 1. The theory of comparative advantage. This explains that by specialising in goods where countries have a lower opportunity ...



    [h=3]The Benefits of Free Trade: A Guide For Policymakers[/h]www.heritage.org/.../the-benefits-of-free-trade-...




    The Heritage Foundation


    Aug 25, 2000 - Moreover, the benefits of free trade extend well beyond American households. Free trade helps to spread the value of freedom, reinforce the ...



    [h=3]10 benefits - 7. Growth and jobs - World Trade Organization[/h]https://www.wto.org/english/.../10b07_e.htm




    World Trade Organization


    The WTO is the only international body dealing with the rules of trade between nations. At its heart are the WTO agreements, the legal ground-rules for ...



    [h=3]The Advantages of Free Trade in Developing Countries ...[/h]smallbusiness.chron.com › Finances & Taxes › Free Trade




    Free trade encompasses many practices and theories. The most common application of free trade is the reduction or removal of commercial barriers between ...



    [h=3]Free Trade Agreement Benefits | Chron.com[/h]smallbusiness.chron.com › Finances & Taxes › Free Trade




    International trade is the modern framework of prosperity. Free trade policies open up new areas to competition and innovation. Free trade leads to better jobs, ...
 
Ah but it doesn't. You see, when you say free trade, what you REALLY mean is, free MARKET. And by free market, you mean, get rid of regulation, remove protections for weaker bargaining partners, etc.

Am I correct?

No. You are not.
 
  1. [h=3]The Benefits of Free Trade: Addressing Key Myths|Mercatus[/h]mercatus.org/.../benefits-free-trade-addressing-key-myth...

    Mercatus Center


    Apr 20, 2015 - This is understandable: the benefits of free international trade are often diffuse and hard to see, while the benefits of shielding specific groups ...



    [h=3]Benefits of Free Trade | Economics Help[/h]www.economicshelp.org › International Trade




    The benefits of free trade include: 1. The theory of comparative advantage. This explains that by specialising in goods where countries have a lower opportunity ...



    [h=3]The Benefits of Free Trade: A Guide For Policymakers[/h]www.heritage.org/.../the-benefits-of-free-trade-...




    The Heritage Foundation


    Aug 25, 2000 - Moreover, the benefits of free trade extend well beyond American households. Free trade helps to spread the value of freedom, reinforce the ...



    [h=3]10 benefits - 7. Growth and jobs - World Trade Organization[/h]https://www.wto.org/english/.../10b07_e.htm




    World Trade Organization


    The WTO is the only international body dealing with the rules of trade between nations. At its heart are the WTO agreements, the legal ground-rules for ...



    [h=3]The Advantages of Free Trade in Developing Countries ...[/h]smallbusiness.chron.com › Finances & Taxes › Free Trade




    Free trade encompasses many practices and theories. The most common application of free trade is the reduction or removal of commercial barriers between ...



    [h=3]Free Trade Agreement Benefits | Chron.com[/h]smallbusiness.chron.com › Finances & Taxes › Free Trade




    International trade is the modern framework of prosperity. Free trade policies open up new areas to competition and innovation. Free trade leads to better jobs, ...




  1. And I could debate the merits of each claim in each of those links, but frankly, I don't have the time. I could simply dump a bunch of my OWN links denouncing what you call free trade, but that would be childish, don't you think?

    Revealing, of course, that the very first link was type out by a self professed Hayek fanboy.
 
And I could debate the merits of each claim in each of those links, but frankly, I don't have the time. I could simply dump a bunch of my OWN links denouncing what you call free trade, but that would be childish, don't you think?

Revealing, of course, that the very first link was type out by a self professed Hayek fanboy.

As you wish.
 
No. You are not.

Then we seem to be in a bit of confusion, here. You see, when you use the phrase free trade, and then apply it to things like NAFTA, or TPP, all I can think is, you must mean, by free trade, finding new ways to circumvent regulation and protectionist policies. Which are free market ideals. Because that is what those things actually tend to do...find new and interesting ways to undermine the very laws and regulations that were responsible for making this country and economic powerhouse all through the previous century.
 
Then we seem to be in a bit of confusion, here. You see, when you use the phrase free trade, and then apply it to things like NAFTA, or TPP, all I can think is, you must mean, by free trade, finding new ways to circumvent regulation and protectionist policies. Which are free market ideals. Because that is what those things actually tend to do...find new and interesting ways to undermine the very laws and regulations that were responsible for making this country and economic powerhouse all through the previous century.

I don't accept that.
 
I don't accept that.

Which part? That these large trade deals like the ones we tend to see find new and interesting ways to circumvent current law or regulation, or that current law or regulations were part of what made our country great, economically?
 
Which part? That these large trade deals like the ones we tend to see find new and interesting ways to circumvent current law or regulation, or that current law or regulations were part of what made our country great, economically?

Both.
 
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