• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Moslem lynched in India over beef eating rumors

C

Cryptic

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
3,955
Reaction score
1,342
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
My guess is that this is going to quickly snowball in a bad way:

Indian Muslim man beaten to death for allegedly eating beef - CBS News

Hindu hardliners have already called for the ban to be enforced in Kashmir. The local moslem majority promises copious quantities of violence if it is. I dont know why the status quo of beef being technically illegal but the ban not truly enforced, and no hamburgers for sale in front of the hindu temple was not good enough.

Even more idiotic at a time when moslem identity to India is questioned, this moslem family was Indian in every sense of the word. The victim's son is in the Indian airforce. His other son does not even have a noticably Islamic name:
How a Hindu lynch mob killed a Muslim over beef and murdered India's secularism again

I wonder of they still feel the same sense of loyalty now?
 
Last edited:
... and we have plenty of people here that think Theocracy is a good idea.
 
Every group has crazies.
 
Cryptic said:
My guess is that this is going to quickly snowball in a bad way:

Indian Muslim man beaten to death for allegedly eating beef - CBS News

Hindu hardliners have already called for the ban to be enforced in Kashmir. The local moslem majority promises copious quantities of violence if it is. I dont know why the status quo of beef being technically illegal but the ban not truly enforced, and no hamburgers for sale in front of the hindu temple was not good enough.

Even more idiotic at a time when moslem identity to India is questioned, this moslem family was Indian in every sense of the word. The victim's son is in the Indian airforce. His other son does not even have a noticably Islamic name:
How a Hindu lynch mob killed a Muslim over beef and murdered India's secularism again

I wonder of they still feel the same sense of loyalty now?
Click to expand...

Cows are sacred in India to a lot of people. It's the same as people here blowing up abortion clinics because that group thinks the clinics are murdering children.

BTW, you have noticed that the word is "muslim" and not "moslem," right?
 
JumpinJack said:
Cows are sacred in India to a lot of people. It's the same as people here blowing up abortion clinics because that group thinks the clinics are murdering children.

BTW, you have noticed that the word is "muslim" and not "moslem," right?
Click to expand...

I thought the spellings were interchangeable. It might derive from an Arabic word. If so, then the phonetic spelling in English can difer.

As for the abortion clinic comparison, no national level politicians and very few religous figures at any level call for violence over the issue. In contrast, Hinduvatta politicians in India regularly incite their supporters to violence over religous matters.
 
Cryptic said:
My guess is that this is going to quickly snowball in a bad way:

Indian Muslim man beaten to death for allegedly eating beef - CBS News

Hindu hardliners have already called for the ban to be enforced in Kashmir. The local moslem majority promises copious quantities of violence if it is. I dont know why the status quo of beef being technically illegal but the ban not truly enforced, and no hamburgers for sale in front of the hindu temple was not good enough.

Even more idiotic at a time when moslem identity to India is questioned, this moslem family was Indian in every sense of the word. The victim's son is in the Indian airforce. His other son does not even have a noticably Islamic name:
How a Hindu lynch mob killed a Muslim over beef and murdered India's secularism again

I wonder of they still feel the same sense of loyalty now?
Click to expand...
If Kim Davis would've gotten away with her theocratic scam, just imagine if one of these guys got into a government position of power?

This is why our Constitution's framers wisely included an anti-establishment clause, and why the Federal Judge jailed Kim Davis ASAP.

Religion should have no authority in the public sphere.
 
Cryptic said:
I thought the spellings were interchangeable. It might derive from an Arabic word. If so, then the phonetic spelling in English can difer.

As for the abortion clinic comparison, no national level politicians and very few religous figures at any level call for violence over the issue. In contrast, Hinduvatta politicians in India regularly incite their supporters to violence over religous matters.
Click to expand...

Ah. I see.
 
Chomsky said:
If Kim Davis would've gotten away with her theocratic scam, just imagine if one of these guys got into a government position of power?

This is why our Constitution's framers wisely included an anti-establishment clause, and why the Federal Judge jailed Kim Davis ASAP.
Click to expand...

I agree in the jailing of Davis.

And what about Obama's initial insistance that nuns provide birth control and abortificiants to their very small number of employees? That intrusion into religous life does not seem like a good excercise of the establishment clause either as it moves the State into the church.
 
Cryptic said:
I agree in the jailing of Davis.

And what about Obama's initial insistance that nuns provide birth control and abortificiants to their very small number of employees? That intrusion into religous life does not seem like a good excercise of the establishment clause either as it moves the State into the church.
Click to expand...
I'm with you in this - if the nuns are running a business with employees, the employees are entitled to standardized health insurance, if it's provided.

I think Hobby Lobby was a bad decision too, but I support the authority of the Constitution & Supreme Court (even if sometimes begrudgingly).
 
Cryptic said:
My guess is that this is going to quickly snowball in a bad way:

Indian Muslim man beaten to death for allegedly eating beef - CBS News

Hindu hardliners have already called for the ban to be enforced in Kashmir. The local moslem majority promises copious quantities of violence if it is. I dont know why the status quo of beef being technically illegal but the ban not truly enforced, and no hamburgers for sale in front of the hindu temple was not good enough.

Even more idiotic at a time when moslem identity to India is questioned, this moslem family was Indian in every sense of the word. The victim's son is in the Indian airforce. His other son does not even have a noticably Islamic name:
How a Hindu lynch mob killed a Muslim over beef and murdered India's secularism again

I wonder of they still feel the same sense of loyalty now?
Click to expand...

You would almost have thought that this kind of behavior was more to do with culture and education then the religion in question.
 
countryboy said:
Care to provide evidence that "most far right social conservatives" wish to live under a theocracy?
Click to expand...

How do you argue for social controls from legislation, then turn around and say that same group does not want a theocracy?
 
OrphanSlug said:
How do you argue for social controls from legislation, then turn around and say that same group does not want a theocracy?
Click to expand...
That's what I thought. You made it up. That's not what a theocracy is, but you already knew that. ;)
 
Red_Dave said:
You would almost have thought that this kind of behavior was more to do with culture and education then the religion in question.
Click to expand...

I have a sneaking suspiscion that you are right.

At the same time, Hindu nationalist politicians of the now ruling party who do have high levels of education have been making veiled and not so veiled rabble rousing speeches against Moslems, Sikhs, Christians and low caste hindus for years. When violence does break out, the same politicians are quick to either blame the victims or blame a handful of hindu village illiterates for getting carried away.
 
Last edited:
Cryptic said:
My guess is that this is going to quickly snowball in a bad way:

Indian Muslim man beaten to death for allegedly eating beef - CBS News

Hindu hardliners have already called for the ban to be enforced in Kashmir. The local moslem majority promises copious quantities of violence if it is. I dont know why the status quo of beef being technically illegal but the ban not truly enforced, and no hamburgers for sale in front of the hindu temple was not good enough.

Even more idiotic at a time when moslem identity to India is questioned, this moslem family was Indian in every sense of the word. The victim's son is in the Indian airforce. His other son does not even have a noticably Islamic name:
How a Hindu lynch mob killed a Muslim over beef and murdered India's secularism again

I wonder of they still feel the same sense of loyalty now?
Click to expand...

I'm the son of immigrants from India - I'm an atheist - and I find the article to be very slanted.

This was one incident in a nation of a billion people - and yet somehow it means that India is now teetering on a precipice? Ridiculous. There was a past history of trouble between the neighbors and the guy who got lynched - the beef/cow thing may have merely been a pretext. What's very clear is that India's media are very Left-wing dominated, and they'll play up anything for partisan political purposes. Remember, this is a country that's been ruled by one particular party - a very Left-wing party - for nearly two-thirds of a century. That party has spent all that time putting its cronies and its appointees into power in every nook and cranny of the govt, and into every institution. Even though that party now sits in the opposition benches in parliament, it's really still in power anyway. Every 3rd airport, university, hospital, dam and highway is named after their artificial monarchy - the Nehru/Gandhi family. That's not a recipe for objective reporting or coverage of what's going on over there.

I'm an atheist, but I think there's a lot of misrepresentation of this word "Hindu" and what it really is, which goes to the heart of what's happening over there.
 
sanman said:
This was one incident in a nation of a billion people - and yet somehow it means that India is now teetering on a precipice? Ridiculous. There was a past history of trouble between the neighbors and the guy who got lynched - the beef/cow thing may have merely been a pretext.
Click to expand...

It is not just one incident and I dont think India is teetering on the edge of a cliff, just that they are marching towards a steep slope.

There has been a pattern of tolerated, or tacitly enouraged violence against religous minorities in India following the ascent of the right wingers. Sure, some of the violence has multiple causes, but a noticable pattern still exists.

Even the Beef Ban laws present a gambit as now the questions is whether to enforce them or not. Enforcing them risks large scale violence. Not enforcing them weakens respect for the government.
 
Cryptic said:
It is not just one incident and I dont think India is teetering on the edge of a cliff, just that they are marching towards a steep slope.

There has been a pattern of tolerated, or tacitly enouraged violence against religous minorities in India following the ascent of the right wingers. Sure, some of the violence has multiple causes, but a noticable pattern still exists.

Even the Beef Ban laws present a gambit as now the questions is whether to enforce them or not. Enforcing them risks large scale violence. Not enforcing them weakens respect for the government.
Click to expand...

When you say "minorities", I think you're simply ignorant on India's ethnic makeup.

Just a little history lesson, for context:

When Muslims expanded out of the Middle East, they encountered inhabitants living around the banks of the river INDUS, which the Muslims with their Middle Eastern accents then mispronounced as "HINDUS", and decided to slap that name onto everybody over there. These inhabitants belonged to a variety of different ethnic groups, but the Muslims just decided that all the infidels looked alike, and so that name "HINDUS" was slapped onto everybody.

From my point of view, it's not much different than Colombus arriving in the Americas, and slapping the label "INDIANS" onto all the different Native American peoples. These people came to use that label "INDIANS" to refer to themselves, but later when they got wise to it, they decided there was no reason for them to keep using this skewed name definition that somebody else slapped onto them. So now they refer to themselves as First Nations - with an s on the end, to show they're not all the same group.

So likewise, in India, in spite of that word "HINDUS" that's been artificially slapped on, there are actually a broad variety of different groups, religions, ethnicities. There is no "big bad Hindu majority" - that's just a myth propagated by former colonizers who've stacked the labels according to their own whims - the reality is that groups like Muslims and Christians are the larger ethnic groups in a sea of smaller ethnic groups. These larger, more organized groups often pit the smaller groups against each other for political leverage. The effects of this have spawned a broader political backlash from the local homegrown indigenous faith groups.

Understanding these key realities is fundamental to understanding the basis for the political dynamics of the situation in India. If you can't get that, then you won't understand what's going on, and you'll just slap on whatever lazy conclusion you can come up with as a cop-out.
 
countryboy said:
Care to provide evidence that "most far right social conservatives" wish to live under a theocracy?
Click to expand...

Look around this forum, they're all there. Look at the controlling majority faction in the GOP and things like "faith based initiative"... Look at public places and where they are that include the 10 commandments, public prayer and anti abortion right to life agendas.

It's all there dude, and the majority of the country does not want it.
 
That's just the Left's lazy over-simplistic view coupled with their own desire to ethnically caricature.
 
sanman said:
That's just the Left's lazy over-simplistic view coupled with their own desire to ethnically caricature.
Click to expand...

A random statement? Or are you replying to some post and trying to make a point?

just curious
 
I replied to your post.
 
jet57 said:
Look around this forum, they're all there. Look at the controlling majority faction in the GOP and things like "faith based initiative"... Look at public places and where they are that include the 10 commandments, public prayer and anti abortion right to life agendas.

It's all there dude, and the majority of the country does not want it.
Click to expand...

You either have no idea what a theocracy is, or are being hyperbolic. Frankly, it could go either way.

Christians lobbying for their interests is no different than libs lobbying for theirs. Nobody is calling for priests to rule in the place of elected officials. Get real. :roll:

theocracy.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom