Debate Politics Forums
Speak your voice
Go Back   Debate Politics Forums > International > International Politics > Asia-Central

Asia-Central Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears; In an opinion piece published in today’s edition of The Wall Street Journal , Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili asks , “Why ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-08, 09:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
Moderator
Mod team member

 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Last Online: Yesterday 01:43 PM
Location: New York
Posts: 2,217
Thanks: 699
Thanked 1,317 Times in 761 Posts
Lean: Centrist
Gender: Male

Awards:
Moderation Team:  Thank you!! 

Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

In an opinion piece published in today’s edition of The Wall Street Journal, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili asks, “Why this war? This is the question my people are asking. This war is not of Georgia's making, nor is it Georgia's choice.” Those who understand Russia’s history and understand the prism through which Russia’s leaders view the world should not be surprised that Georgia’s effort to militarily settle the South Ossetia dispute resulted in significant Russian intervention.

Russia has historically felt insecure in spite of great power and expansive frontiers. It has had a fear that the surrounding states could grow hostile and strangle it. That fear drove what amounted to an expansionist policy, be through territorial gain or expanded influence, particularly in bordering regions.

In The New Diplomacy: International Affairs In The Modern Age, Abba Eban explained:

Territorial expansion was not a new feature of Russian history, and yet in Russian eyes it was a “defensive expansion” inspired by the lack of defensive frontiers and by the harsh experience of past generations in which invading Russia had been an endemic habit of powerful European states. From the very beginning of the postwar [post-World War II] period the Soviet Union has displayed the classic contradictions of its image: a siege mentality combined with a sweeping audacity beyond the walls…

The nightmare of constant attack from neighboring countries, most recently experienced in the tragedy of 20 million Russian dead at the hands of the Nazis, had hardened the Soviet resolve to be satisfied with nothing less than total control of all contiguous territories.


In Diplomacy Henry Kissinger wrote:

Paradox was Russia’s most distinguishing feature. Constantly at war and expanding in every direction, it nevertheless considered itself permanently threatened. The more polyglot the empire became, the more vulnerable Russia felt, partly because of its need to isolate the various nationalities from their neighbors. To sustain their rule and to surmount the tensions among the empire’s various populations, all of Russia’s rulers invoked the myth of some vast, foreign threat, which, in time, turned into another of the self-fulfilling prophecies that doomed the stability of Europe.

As Russia expanded from the area around Moscow toward the center of Europe, the shores of the Pacific, and into Central Asia, its quest for security evolved into expansion for its own sake.

Russia gradually turned into as much of a threat to the balance of power in Europe as it did to the sovereignty of neighbors around its vast periphery. No matter how much territory it controlled, Russia inexorably pushed its borders outward.


Following the implosion of the Soviet Union and the political and economic crises that followed, the specter of weakness haunted Russia. Russia’s fears were intensified by pundits’ proclamations of a new single Superpower world. However the U.S. tried to explain it, Russia’s leaders saw U.S. unilateralism as a threat to Russia’s national security. U.S. withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty, the expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe, the West’s wresting Kosovo from Serbia, and U.S. plans to construct anti-missile radar installations in Poland and the Czech Republic all fed those fears.

A landmark speech by former Russian President Vladimir Putin before the Munich Conference on Security Policy in February 2007 encapsulated the Russian perspective concerning U.S. policy, particularly military interventions, and Russia’s fears. President Putin declared:

I consider that the unipolar model is not only unacceptable but also impossible in today’s world. And this is not only because if there was individual leadership in today’s – and precisely in today’s – world, then the military, political and economic resources would not suffice. What is even more important is that the model itself is flawed because at its basis there is and can be no moral foundations for modern civilization…

Unilateral and frequently illegitimate actions have not resolved any problems. Moreover, they have caused new human tragedies and created new centers of tension. Judge for yourselves: wars as well as local and regional conflicts have not diminished… And no less people perish in these conflicts – even more are dying than before. Significantly more, significantly more!

Today we are witnessing an almost uncontained hyper use of force – military force – in international relations, force that is plunging the world into an abyss of permanent conflicts. As a result we do not have sufficient strength to find a comprehensive solution to any one of these conflicts. Finding a political settlement also becomes impossible.

We are seeing a greater and greater disdain for the basic principles of international law. And independent legal norms are, as a matter of fact, coming increasingly closer to one state’s legal system. One state and, of course, first and foremost the United States, has overstepped its national borders in every way…

And of course this is extremely dangerous. It results in the fact that no one feels safe. I want to emphasize this – no one feels safe! Because no one can feel that international law is like a stone wall that will protect them. Of course such a policy stimulates an arms race.

The force’s dominance inevitably encourages a number of countries to acquire weapons of mass destruction. Moreover, significantly new threats – though they were also well-known before – have appeared, and today threats such as terrorism have taken on a global character.

I am convinced that we have reached that decisive moment when we must seriously think about the architecture of global security.


Russia viewed developments in Georgia as part of a long-run trend that it felt was posing a growing threat to its security interests. “No one feels safe,” Putin had observed in his speech. Russia felt that the ring around its state was closing. Yesterday, The New York Times reported:

The Bush administration’s strong support for Georgia — including the training of Georgia’s military and arms support — came, in part, as a reward for its support of the United States in Iraq. The United States has held Georgia up as a beacon of democracy in the former Soviet Union; it was supposed to be an example to other former Soviet republics of the benefits of tilting to the West.

But that, along with America and Europe’s actions on Kosovo, left Russia feeling threatened, encircled and more convinced that it had to take aggressive measures to restore its power, dignity and influence in a region it considers its strategic back yard, foreign policy experts said.


The Moscow Times wrote of the thinking that guided Russia's government:

The South Ossetian conflict was a foreign policy trap for Russia from the start, and the trap slammed shut after the Georgian troops started shelling Tskhinvali late last week and its residents pleaded for Moscow to intervene, said Alexander Khramchikhin, a senior researcher with the Institute of Political and Military Analysis.

"Russia was left with the choice of either becoming a traitor or an aggressor," he said.

This apparently was a tough choice for a country that feels encircled and humiliated as former vassal regimes turn to the West. The fact that Georgia is a close ally of the United States, which strongly backs its bid to join NATO, promises to further complicate the bigger, geopolitical ramifications of the violence in South Ossetia.


In the end, Russian intervention should reasonably have been expected. Although the conflict was not of Georgia’s choice, it was the unintended consequence of Georgia’s decision to try to settle the South Ossetia dispute through armed force.

Now, looking farther ahead, the question arises as to what impact the success of Russian arms will have with respect to other disputes between Russia and its neighbors, as well as the larger framework of Russia-West relations. Will Russia marry its fears with its military success against Georgia to embark on an even more hawkish course? That is at least one plausible scenario. Such an outcome would increase geopolitical risk and it is a situation for which U.S. and Western policy makers will need to be prepared.

Last edited by donsutherland1 : 08-11-08 at 09:56 AM.
donsutherland1 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to donsutherland1 For This Useful Post:
Inline Ads
Old 08-11-08, 02:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
User
 
The Bare Knuckled Pundit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Last Online: 11-20-08 10:20 PM
Posts: 121
Thanks: 13
Thanked 122 Times in 56 Posts
Lean: Independent
Gender: Male

Current Mood:
Cool
Re: Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

Spot on! Good show, indeed, Mr. Sutherland.
__________________
http://bareknuckledpundit.blogspot.com/

Some things are just too important to be taken so damned seriously.
The Bare Knuckled Pundit is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-08, 06:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
Sage

 
bhkad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Last Online: 11-18-08 02:05 AM
Posts: 7,458
Thanks: 1,927
Thanked 670 Times in 506 Posts

Awards:
US Army:  Army from 30 July 72 - 31 July 75, USMC from 3 Aug 81 - 5 Dec 81 

Re: Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

Quote:
Russia flexing its muscles

Fighting in Georgia a serious test for the West, and mostly for America

Isabella Ginor

Russia’s decision to get involved in a seemingly local conflict apparently stemmed from its desire to prompt Georgia to embark on a military operation. This allowed Russia to portray Georgia as the aggressor and to justify Moscow’s massive intervention

Russia’s conduct is amazingly similar to a scenario we are already well familiar with: The Soviet initiative to create a crisis and war between Israel and the Arab states ahead of the Six-Day War, in order to intervene in favor of the “victims of aggression.”

The scope of the Russian military intervention was immediately characterized by the West as “disproportional.” That would be true had the operation been directed at Georgia alone. The targets bombed by the Russians as early as Friday included a Georgian Air Force base in the capital, Tbilisi. According to some reports, American experts are regularly deployed at the base. Israeli experts may also be deployed there, and at the very least were there at some point.

Yet this bombing, which was accompanied by political declarations, hinted that the Russians were signaling to the West, and mostly to the United States, that Russia is determined to prevent its own encirclement by NATO member states.[/i]

West’s credibility on the line

The events in Georgia are tuning into a serious test for the West’s ability, and first and foremost for the US, to end the war in the Caucuses and ensure that Georgia remains a sovereign state. Should Georgia be abandoned, the West’s and America’s credibility in respect to the willingness to protect their allies would be undermined.

Therefore, the events in Georgia must be of great interest for Israel as well. However, if it turns out that Georgia acted rashly and allowed the crisis to escalate, the Americans may be forced to find a balance that is not necessarily in Georgia’s favor. Does this remind you of anything?

Israel maintains close security ties with Georgia, but has great interest in the conflict for other reasons as well: Large quantities of oil and gas are transferred from Azerbaijan to the West via Georgia.


Dr. Isabella Ginor and Gideon Remez co-authored Foxbats over Dimona: The Soviets' Nuclear Gamble in the Six-Day War
Russia flexing its muscles - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

The issue seems clear.

Who is going to control that region of the world?

The West or Russia?

Russia is asserting it's claim. Unless President Bush makes it clear to the American people why it is in our vital interests to challenge that claim we will have to back off.

I believe Russia took a calculated risk in embarking on this action but that it is predictable that they would feel uneasy with NATO forces encroaching on territory so close to it's sphere of influence. During the days of the Soviet Union, THIS AREA WAS ALL THEIRS. And there was no question about it.

Remember the lyrics to the Beatles song, "Back in the USSR":

Quote:
Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the west behind
And Moscow girls make me sing and shout
That Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind

The Beatles - Back In The USSR Lyrics
If we are serious about this we will need to increase our manpower and our military expenditures and form a coalition of states which would support us in this effort. And until or unless the President can show us how it is in our vital interests to pursue this option I believe we will have to back away from this confrontation. It will hurt our bargaining position with would-be allies and foes, alike, and demonstrate our vulnerabilities to other groups and states, who would understandably interpret that as did Osama bin Laden, who called us a Paper Tiger before starting war with us.

However, we just might have to get used to that in order to avoid taking on "a bridge too far."
__________________
But, when all is said and done, Senator McCain has not spent decades aiding and abetting people who hate America. http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell060508.php3
bhkad is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-08, 08:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
Sage


 
Iriemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Last Online: Yesterday 05:18 PM
Location: Miami
Posts: 18,584
Thanks: 1,291
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,349 Posts

Re: Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
If we are serious about this we will need to increase our manpower and our military expenditures...
You mean spending as much as the rest of the world combined isn't enough??
__________________
Matthew 5:9
Iriemon is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-08, 08:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
Sage


 
Iriemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Last Online: Yesterday 05:18 PM
Location: Miami
Posts: 18,584
Thanks: 1,291
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,349 Posts

Re: Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
Russia flexing its muscles - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

The issue seems clear.

Who is going to control that region of the world?

The West or Russia?
Yeah, and Russia's intervention is wrong because one nation has no right to invade another just because it doesn't like what the other government is doing, right?
Iriemon is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-08, 09:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
Sage

 
bhkad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Last Online: 11-18-08 02:05 AM
Posts: 7,458
Thanks: 1,927
Thanked 670 Times in 506 Posts

Awards:
US Army:  Army from 30 July 72 - 31 July 75, USMC from 3 Aug 81 - 5 Dec 81 

Re: Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
Yeah, and Russia's intervention is wrong because one nation has no right to invade another just because it doesn't like what the other government is doing, right?
Welcome to the adult world where a failure to act to prevent predictable negative events can sometimes have disastrous results and where the future is always a mixture of anticipated results and those which are unanticipated.

I can well understand Russia's perspective and if I were in Putin's shoes I might have done as he has.

In this I see that you have chosen to defend a point of view which has no significant sponsorship.

Last edited by bhkad : 08-11-08 at 09:35 PM.
bhkad is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-08, 09:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
Sage

 
bhkad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Last Online: 11-18-08 02:05 AM
Posts: 7,458
Thanks: 1,927
Thanked 670 Times in 506 Posts

Awards:
US Army:  Army from 30 July 72 - 31 July 75, USMC from 3 Aug 81 - 5 Dec 81 

Re: Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
You mean spending as much as the rest of the world combined isn't enough??
If you will stop a moment and really read my comments you will see that I am not advocating this course, but outlining why such a course is unlikely to be chosen by our leadership.
bhkad is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-08, 09:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
Sage


 
Iriemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Last Online: Yesterday 05:18 PM
Location: Miami
Posts: 18,584
Thanks: 1,291
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,349 Posts

Re: Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
In this I see that you have chosen to defend a point of view which has no significant sponsorship.
What point of view did you think I was defending?
Iriemon is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-08, 09:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
Sage


 
Iriemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Last Online: Yesterday 05:18 PM
Location: Miami
Posts: 18,584
Thanks: 1,291
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,349 Posts

Re: Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
If you will stop a moment and really read my comments you will see that I am not advocating this course, but outlining why such a course is unlikely to be chosen by our leadership.
I must have misunderstood your statement: "If we are serious about this we will need to increase our manpower and our military expenditures" as advocating for that, unless your point is that we should be serious.
Iriemon is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-08, 09:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
Sage

 
bhkad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Last Online: 11-18-08 02:05 AM
Posts: 7,458
Thanks: 1,927
Thanked 670 Times in 506 Posts

Awards:
US Army:  Army from 30 July 72 - 31 July 75, USMC from 3 Aug 81 - 5 Dec 81 

Re: Russia's Military Intervention: A Product of Russia's World Perspective and Fears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
What point of view did you think I was defending?
That the Russians should not be taking military action in Georgia and that the US should not be taking military action in Iraq, or maybe anywhere?
bhkad is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
war on terror or new world order biblemark1018 Archives 75 10-11-05 07:05 PM

Navigation
Home Main
spacer Home
spacer Newsroom
spacer Resources
spacer FAQ
spacer Chatroom

Extras Extras
spacer DP Store
spacer Statistics
spacer Worldmap
spacer Gallery
spacer Link to us

 Advertise Here!

Random Pic
by Jerry
· · ·
Member Galleries
988 photos
217 comments



Debate Politics XML Feed

Add to my Yahoo!



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:12 AM.

Partners with: Computer repair || Irrationally Informed

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Debate Politics.com Copyright ©2004-2008
SEO by vBSEO