Myanmar deaths may exceed 100,000: U.S. - Page 2

aegyptos · 05-08-08, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos

You counting the US of A, Australia and Canada as dysfunctional?

Anyhow - back to the thread -

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | UN aid flights to Burma under way

however US flights with aid are blocked.

No the anglo parts work fairly well, after a fashion. What of the rest though, you know, the parts populated not populated by a favored class of white immigrants? Can you describe how the US foreign policy interacts with the dysfunctional parts of the former British Empire?

donsutherland1 · 05-08-08, 07:58 PM

With respect to the storm's track and the geographic features of the area most severely impacted by the cyclone, MSNBC reported this evening:

It was Asia's answer to Hurricane Katrina. Packing winds upwards of 120 mph, Cyclone Nargis became one of Asia's deadliest storms by hitting land at one of the lowest points in Myanmar and setting off a storm surge that reached 25 miles inland.

"When we saw the (storm) track, I said, 'Uh oh, this is not going to be good," said Mark Lander, a meteorology professor at the University of Guam. "It would create a big storm surge. It was like Katrina going into New Orleans."

donsutherland1 · 05-08-08, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystiq

...but then deep down i really DO want to see an end to the junta power is coming closer than before.

I do, too. Sometimes major calamities--natural or economic--have brought the fall of governments. Certainly, the lack of adequate warning and the dictatorship's extremely bad performance with respect to international assistance is further delegitimizing it in the eyes of Myanmar's people and perhaps even amont some elements of the military.

ludahai · 05-09-08, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Thats what I have been hearing. I am not sure the exact history in Burma, but I am sure the warring that has been going on there for a while now has something to do with the reluctance of the government to accept foreign support. I wonder what exactly they are worried we will find......

The ethnic groups rebelling against the government are far from the scene of this disaster. It has more to do with the general paranoia of the military junta. Burma was once a thriving democracy - one that the military overthrew in 1962. THey lost a democratic election about 20 years ago - the results of which they subsequently summarily threw out.

This is a criminal, dictatorial regime and their crimes against humanity should now be apparent to all.

ludahai · 05-09-08, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Yet another dysfuctional society resulting from the failure of the British Empire. They are paranoid about round-eyed foreigners and with good reason.

huh?!?!? This has nothing to do with the British. The British left a functioning democracy in place. The military overthrew it more than a decade after the British left.

ludahai · 05-09-08, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donsutherland1

The Myanmar dictatorship's reluctance to allow entry of international humanitarian relief personnel is unconscionable in my opinion. At the same time, it puts the hundreds of thousands of homeless people at risk of disease, a development that could magnify the already catastrophic death toll.

For those who are interested in why the Category 3 cyclone's storm surge proved so devastating, the storm's track and the area's geographic features combined to make the low-lying Ayeyarwaddy Delta a death trap. Nargis' track allowed the storm maximum time and an optimal wind direction to pile the waters up the many tributaries that finger from the Ayeyarwaddy.

Note: Nargis' storm track/storm surge trajectory were overlayed on a Google Earth image of Myanmar.

The video of Nargis' track to landfall can be found at the University of Wisconsin-Madison's Cooperative Institute for Meteorological Satellite Studies' website:
MIMIC

It was a combination of coming in right on the lowest lying areas of the Irrawaddy Delta AND the very shallow continental shelf off the coast of the Irrawaddy Delta to the south which resulted in a 4-5 meter storm surge.

ludahai · 05-09-08, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystiq

do you guys think this could be the right time to demand the junta to dismantle their military regime and return democracy to the ppl by re-instating Aung Syu Kyi? ...of course with aid being continued to the devastated areas..

Daw Aung was never instated in the first place. However, she should be allowed to lead a provisional government until democratic elections should take place. It would be an appropriate honor to her father, regarded as the father of Democracy in Burma.

ludahai · 05-09-08, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donsutherland1

A humanitarian catastrophe is the absolute worst time to pursue political agendas, even noble ones such as seeking an end to Myanmar's brutal dictatorship. If anything, even the hint that outside states would seek to erode that regime's grip on power, could lead to its shutting off all humanitarian assistance, as it still controls the country's levers of power. In turn, such a development would greatly magnify the tragedy that is now unfolding. It is already very difficult to get assistance to the cyclone's victims (very limited assistance is being permitted into Myanmar).

In addition, a push for human rights/freedom now could lead others to conclude that those making the push were attempting to leverage an awful catastrophe for political objectives. Such a move would not play well in world opinion. It might actually leave the human rights/freedom cause worse off than it presently is, especially if those making the push were to be blamed and discredited for the consequences that resulted from, let's say, the dictatorship's inhibiting assistance in response to a fresh human rights/freedom effort.

In the end, much as I would prefer to see Aung Syu Kyi freed and the harsh military dictatorship brought to a conclusion, I don't believe this is the time to do it. The sole priority needs to be getting relief to the estimated 1.5 million cyclone victims as quickly as possible.

WHile I agree with this statement, would this problem be so serious if there were a responsible government in Burma? First - help the people as much as the dictators will allow (I agree with you on this) - however, we also need to push for democracy and an overthrow of the military junta. They took a once prosperous, democratic country and turned it into a basketcase.

ludahai · 05-09-08, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

No the anglo parts work fairly well, after a fashion. What of the rest though, you know, the parts populated not populated by a favored class of white immigrants? Can you describe how the US foreign policy interacts with the dysfunctional parts of the former British Empire?

How are the British responsible for the fact that the military took over the government in 1962 after more than a decade of democracy. Burma was a relatively prosperous country before they took over. The British left a well-trained civil servant class and a group of competant leaders led by Daw Aung's father.

ludahai · 05-09-08, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donsutherland1

With respect to the storm's track and the geographic features of the area most severely impacted by the cyclone, MSNBC reported this evening:

It was Asia's answer to Hurricane Katrina. Packing winds upwards of 120 mph, Cyclone Nargis became one of Asia's deadliest storms by hitting land at one of the lowest points in Myanmar and setting off a storm surge that reached 25 miles inland.

"When we saw the (storm) track, I said, 'Uh oh, this is not going to be good," said Mark Lander, a meteorology professor at the University of Guam. "It would create a big storm surge. It was like Katrina going into New Orleans."

Even I knew this two days before the storm hit. I was saying exactly the same thing.