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Did George Lucas ruin the Star Wars franchise with Episodes 1 thru 3?

Did George Lucas ruin the Star Wars franchise with Episodes 1 thru 3?

  • Total voters
    22
Serenity said:
I guess it would depend on who you ask and the age of the viewer. Whilst they are not my favourites, I do recognise that episodes 1,2 & 3 have given us a whole new generation of Star Wars Fans who certainly very much enjoy them.

Personally I think that's great. I'm really not sure how someone who initially saw the original Star Wars when it was released 38 years ago (and they are likely hitting age 50's now), will ever be able to have the same experience and feel excitement levels that were generated back then irrespective of how good the newer episodes could be. They're not the same people anymore, it's been 38 years.
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this is a very important point. any star wars movies that get made today (and by "today" I'm including the prequels) are made in a world where the star wars universe already exists. when the originals came out, that universe did not yet exist and it blew everyone's mind. the idea that any subsequent star wars movie could do the same thing is just not possible.
 
celticwar17 said:
Is it weird I like all the movies? even 1-3 O_O
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No, not at all. Know why?



bg85 said:
to your more hardcore hipster-nerds, the prequels were a travesty. to most folks, especially people under the age of 15 or so when the phantom menace came out, the prequels expanded and improved the franchise by an incredible amount.
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That's why.
 
radcen said:
The movies aren't cinematic masterpieces, to be sure, but Eps 4-6... ok, 4 & 5... had a certain charm nonetheless. Even Ep 7 brought back some of that charm, IMO, though it did rehash the story line too much.

I like thought-provoking movies, absolutely, but sometimes I just want to be entertained, too. Not everything has to be deep.
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Well, aside from Hayden Christensen's abhorrent acting abilities, I would say that II and III were entertaining movies, too.

I think, tbh, that episode IV doesn't even really have the charm that people want it to, or at least it doesn't have the charm it did in the 1970's. Aside from Han Solo's moments and Alec Guinness's performance (Not really that different than Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, or Christopher Lee's scenes in I, II, and III, which were all largely very good), but Ep IV's charm was almost entirely in its ability to have awesome (for the time) special effects. So it's surviving charm is, I think, not really meaningfully better than episode II or III's charm, although at least it didn't have Hayden Christensen acting in them. Blech.

EDIT: btw, I think that episode VII has the same problems. But their gimmick wasn't just special effects, it was on nostalgia, which isn't an emotion that someone who's bingeing on the Star Wars movies 10 or 20 years from now is going to have. So I actually think that when people watch Ep VII for the first time after watching Jedi... I don't think that the movie is really going to hold up, tbh. WAY too much rinse-and-repeat of the same plot points and, the far greater sin for this series, there were absolutely no new worlds or aliens that were interesting, charming, or engaging. BB8 was the closest we got to any of it, he was a good start, but sort of pathetic for that to be the only new element to the Star Wars universe.
 
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FieldTheorist said:
Well, aside from Hayden Christensen's abhorrent acting abilities, I would say that II and III were entertaining movies, too.

I think, tbh, that episode IV doesn't even really have the charm that people want it to, or at least it doesn't have the charm it did in the 1970's. Aside from Han Solo's moments and Alec Guinness's performance (Not really that different than Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, or Christopher Lee's scenes in I, II, and III, which were all largely very good), but Ep IV's charm was almost entirely in its ability to have awesome (for the time) special effects. So it's surviving charm is, I think, not really meaningfully better than episode II or III's charm, although at least it didn't have Hayden Christensen acting in them. Blech.

EDIT: btw, I think that episode VII has the same problems. But their gimmick wasn't just special effects, it was on nostalgia, which isn't an emotion that someone who's bingeing on the Star Wars movies 10 or 20 years from now is going to have. So I actually think that when people watch Ep VII for the first time after watching Jedi... I don't think that the movie is really going to hold up, tbh. WAY too much rinse-and-repeat of the same plot points and, the far greater sin for this series, there were absolutely no new worlds or aliens that were interesting, charming, or engaging. BB8 was the closest we got to any of it, he was a good start, but sort of pathetic for that to be the only new element to the Star Wars universe.
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That's like saying old movies suck because they were in black and white?
 
Crovax said:
Did you see it when it first came out?
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I did indeed. I was very young when it came out and I was pretty disappointed with it. At the end I was like, "That's it?"

Ntharotep said:
Except that Empire predated Karate Kid so Karate Kid turned into ESB.
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I didnt say ESB copied KK I said the scene turned into something like it.

VanceMack said:
Yep...its things like the Fett...I mean...why bother having that in there if you arent going to make the connections.
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Yeah, I had the toys and everything but when the movie finally comes out... Boba Fett doesnt do anything! He actually has Darth Vader disarm Solo and stop his blaster shot. ESB was the least exciting and most boring of all the Star wars movies- it had no big battle at the end and it kept shifting narratives back and forth.
 
Personally, I'd rank them roughly as follows:

1. ESB (Self explanatory.)

2. ROTJ (Ewoks or no, there are simply too many great scenes in this movie for me to rank it lower.)

3. ANH (Over-shadowed by the second two, but still solid and enjoyable over all.)

4-5. Tie between TPM and TFA (They're both flawed movies, but for completely different reasons. They both also manage to do a lot of things right, however.)

6. ROTS (Yes, I put it lower than TPM. Sorry, but a lot of the dialogue and plotting are just cringe worthy.)

7. ATC (I honestly think George saw the criticism of TPM, took it personally, and just said "F*** it, I quit" with this one. It's almost completely unwatchable.)


Lucas definitely screwed up the series with the prequel movies. The weird thing is... I don't even think TPM was that terrible. Sure. It was kind of slow, and it had some dumb elements. However, it ultimately got the job done, and managed to have some memorable scenes.

It wasn't until Attack of the Clones that things basically became unsalvagable. While Revenge of the Sith corrects some of that, it really doesn't do enough to be considered a "good" movie. If people are being honest, it's still pretty much C, or D-grade material in everything but special effects once you take away the brand name.

The new film fixes most of the problems of the prequel films. However, it does so at the expense of creating some entirely new problems which have the potential to be just as irritating. I really hope the upcoming sequels manage to nip that in the bud before it becomes crippling.
 
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Gathomas88 said:
Personally, I'd rank them roughly as follows:

1. ESB (Self explanatory.)

2. ROTJ (Ewoks or no, there are simply too many great scenes in this movie for me to rank it lower.)

3. ANH (Over-shadowed by the second two, but still solid and enjoyable over all.)

4-5. Tie between TPM and TFA (They're both flawed movies, but for completely different reasons. They both also manage to do a lot of things right, however.)

6. ROTS (Yes, I put it lower than TPM. Sorry, but a lot of the dialogue and plotting are just cringe worthy.)

7. ATC (I honestly think George saw the criticism of TPM, took it personally, and just said "F*** it, I quit" with this one. It's almost completely unwatchable.)


Lucas definitely screwed up the series with the prequel movies. The weird thing is... I don't even think TPM was that terrible. Sure. It was kind of slow, and it had some dumb elements. However, it ultimately got the job done, and managed to have some memorable scenes.

It wasn't until Attack of the Clones that things basically became unsalvagable. While Revenge of the Sith corrects some of that, it really doesn't do enough to be considered a "good" movie. If people are being honest, it's still pretty much C, or D-grade material in everything but special effects once you take away the brand name.

The new film fixes most of the problems of the prequel films. However, it does so at the expense of creating some entirely new problems which have the potential to be just as irritating. I really hope the upcoming sequels manage to nip that in the bud before it becomes crippling.
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Well rotten tomatoes rates TFA at 90% and TPM at 60%, i prefer that consensus.
 
Absentglare said:
Well rotten tomatoes rates TFA at 90% and TPM at 60%, i prefer that consensus.
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I certainly don't. :lol:

The reviewers are going after hype and brand name, unfortunately, not actual quality.

Don't get me wrong. The film's good(ish). However, it's certainly not 90%+ material. It's more in the 7 out of 10 range.
 
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PoS said:
Hipster. :lol:
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Counting down the days, man. Counting down the days. :lol:

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radcen said:
That's like saying old movies suck because they were in black and white?
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Well it doesn't help. Most old movies suck because of the slow pacing and too many extraneous scenes that have absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the movie. The films that hold up as classics mostly don't have that flaw.
 
Clearly not, considering that many people enjoyed the prequels.

It certainly killed the franchise for me though. The prequel-era world Lucas built held no appeal to me. The droids and clone troopers were the most boring cannon fodder (even an Ewok dying made me feel more). Being a Jedi went from requiring very little formal training, needing that you only faced a meaningful, personal test which became years of waving about training light sabers. Never mind the endless cavalcade of boring, one dimensional Sith villains and cartoon duels.

Keep in mind, if you detested these movies, at the time you thought these would be the last Star Wars movies ever.

But now there's new movies so I can reappraise them more soberly. But the damage clearly wasn't permanent because I'm interested in the universe again. And Disney will eventually make one as bad the Prequel Trilogy - it won't be permanent when that happens either.
 
radcen said:
That's like saying old movies suck because they were in black and white?
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Yes, actually, if one of the largest selling points was how awesome this new, high def version of black and white was, when in comparison to what we have today it looks grainy and "Meh." Look, people can bemoan how awful it is that no one appreciates old movies, and that's one thing. I haven't even watched enough classics from the 60's through the 70's. However, we can't say "You're missing out!" on a movie who's primary gimmick was something with a pretty clear expiration date. The cleverness of Alan Hitchcock is timeless; the special effects of Ep IV --Not really. Now, as I already said, the movie will still have scenes and characters that, in my opinion, will make it worth their time (Vader, Han Solo, etc), but to pretend at all like Star Wars IV: A New Hope is going to have the serious, visceral response that someone had when they watched it in the 70's is just naive. Special effects never hold up, at best they become adorably cheesy and campy.
 
radcen said:
Did George Lucas ruin the Star Wars franchise with Episodes 1 thru 3?
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Episodes 1 to 3 do not exist. I deny their existence.

I don't htink the franchise was ruined, but the story line was not done well at all.
 
I wouldn't say he ruined it but I would not be far off in saying
that episodes 1,2, and 3 should have never been made the way they were.

They are absolutely 100% horrible. between the bad acting and bad cast choices not to mention jar jar binks which totally
turned it into a flaming pile of poo he ticked a lot of people off.

Disney was correct in shutting lucas out of this last film.

while some people might complain that it is similar to episode 4 that is not a bad thing.
The force awakens gets back to what star was is and was.

I honest hope that they redo the 1st 3 movies the way they should have done it.

I don't want to see Anakin as a whiny bratty kid.
I want to see him like a Poe or something.

in his 20's. He is a old republic fighter pilot with a flare that others don't have.

I want the empire to be similar to the first order, but it is discovered that they are really clones.
I don't want stupid combat droids.

I want Vaders conversion to the dark side to be something that is ominous and you just get that feeling
this is bad.

I don't want NNNOOOOOOO nonsense.

there is a reason that Disney didn't consult lucas on this film.
while lucas can pitch his fits about it to bad.

personally and honestly I think the movie is doing so well because Abrams is 100% better a director
than lucas was or is.

I don't think it would have done that well if lucas has been in charge of it.
otherwise we would get some more jar jar binks nonsense.
 
radcen said:
Did George Lucas ruin the Star Wars franchise with Episodes 1 thru 3?
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almost. But the bright side was the Plinkett reviews teaches the aspiring filmmaker what NOT to do by tearing those films apart.
 
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