anomaly

And do you realize that there were atleast two (maybe three, but I've forgotten, for sure 2) 20 year periods during the twentieth century where the market either didn't rise or actually dropped off? The Chilean system includes several hidden costs in the investment plan, so if ours is based off Chile's, that doesn't sound too good. And with trillions of dollars going into the market, do you think that could disrupt anything (speculation on my part, there, any info you have on that is requested). Do you realize that if the market is down when you retire, you probably won't have enough to retire on? Do you realize that to compensate with the two trillion dollar loss of tax money (estimated), Bush will either have to raise taxes or lower SS benefits? Do you realize that 40-54 year olds are completely screwed by this plan (they do not have enough time to invest money, and they'll probably see the brunt of tax hikes and/or benefit cuts from SS)? Have you looked at my links (I have several of them on this site, one under SS and HC in the economics section, one in 'Today's News' under 'Bush's SS hoax'). And what of those receiving SS for disability reasons or for unemployment insurance (basically to live on). Will they now just have to live with higher taxes and/or lower benefits? But do read those two links, they are quite good, and hopefully they'll change your mind.

anomaly

Frgot to add, depressions and recessions in capitalism are inevitable. When you have a system that overproduces as frequently as capitalism does, stocks are high from speculation. When these prices go down to normal, people will always sell. It's a system of fluctuations, and when and if SS is privatised, some will greatly benefit from the upswings of the market, but others will greatly lose from the drops. And even the very low risk mutual funds would be affected, they are part of the same market after all. As the stock market continues to rise, we must keep something in mind: the stock market can only rise so far before dropping. Do you want your retirement money in the market when it does begin dropping?

alienken

Anamoly....Ask any financial advisor and they will tell you there are long term safe investments and the 401k system has been successful. i am 34 years old and this plan will give me a higher return than SS. But it will also work for someone at 50-60 years old. If the plan was that 100% of the SS paid in then yes I would agree, that would definatly be a problem-no money for people close or in the system. We are talking about 4-6%, plenty left for people in or close to the system.

__________________
Bumper sticker idea - God is alive in heaven and there's a Texan in the White House. Life is GOOD!

anomaly

In contemporary economics, we view any long term investment as 'safe'. But, realizing that the stock market is not perfect, that a recession and depression in the future is inevitable, and realizing that your return may very well be negative if you retire when the market is down, how can anyone say that an investment is 'safe'? An investment is risky. You say Bush's plan is Ok because we still have the otion of remaining in the gov't program. Do you realize that Bush's plan will entail a raise in SS taxes and/or a decrease in benefits? How else will he come up with those 2 trillion he is taking out of the program? So we now have the freedom to remain in a system that Bush will effectively kill. Ask any economist and they will admit that under a system of private accounts, we will see winners and losers. A private account system is not infallible, far from it. We will see a sharp increase in the amount of elderly in poverty. Also, it seems odd that, as Pac pointed out, Wall Street is not lobbying for this plan. What will throwing 2 trillion dollars into the market do? It seems noone has an answer for that.

alienken

Ask a financial advisor, they will tell you there ARE safe investments.In 20 years the market goes up and down but it always recovers and rises. The 401k program IS successful.

__________________
Bumper sticker idea - God is alive in heaven and there's a Texan in the White House. Life is GOOD!

anomaly

Imagine if you retire when the market is down, though? You will lose money. Besides, are you willing to spend the 2 trillion in transition costs? Many economists have commented that if the market is down when you retire, you stand to lose money. Also, many are afraid of the effects of putting billions or trillions of dollars into the market, much of it overnight. The market will stall, at best, if not fall. This will lead to investors selling and could trigger a big recession.

bushrules91

[QUOTE=globalvision]i have not leaned yet how to include quotes in here but what the hell

yeah.......i hate to tell you but you kinda made yourself look like an ass since there is a quote button at the bottom of every post

Gandhi>Bush

Was that insightful little comment worth bringing this thread that is two months old back to the top?

__________________
I will let no man drag me down so low as to make me hate him. - Booker T. Washington

Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

I believe that a man is the strongest soldier for daring to die unarmed. - Mohandas K Gandhi

http://img287.echo.cx/img287/1156/ghandibush5kp.jpg

Props to ArchEnemy. My signature rocks hard.