Stu Ghatze

Thats right, ..it is stupid, & dangerous! First of all, ..what is remotely similiar to real torture, & whom shall define it?

So...John McCain wants an amendment outlawing all military personel from ever using "whatever" is deemed to be torture!

Sure, ..why not show our hands to brainwashed, hardcore terrorists in letting them know "upfront"...Imagine having Mohammed Atta in custody BEFORE 9/11 happened;.."why, we cannot use any harsh interrogation methods so...you really do not have to co-operate because we ourselves can be prosecuted, ..& by golly you even can have access to our american courts" to criminalize our behavior"????

WTF.... I'm so sick of that g-damn John McCAin who should, & DOES KNOW better.

McCain knows full well what "REAL" torture is as a former Viet-nam prisoner, & in his heart he knows that America does not employ real torture that is even commensurate with that definition.

Most americans have no problem with terrorists being humiliated, being threatened, sent to their cell without supper, ..or even having them slapped around "some" to extract pertinent information that could save the lives of American soldiers, ..& any innocent persons.

Shall we leave it all up to a liberal judge to prosecute a member of our military because of his interpretation of the word "torture".....I think not!

Those individual soldiers who did abuse terror prisoners were "successfully" prosecuted proving that the checks & balances in the military DO work.

The LAST thing we need is some liberal judge ideologue who thinks that terrorists are just common street criminal who have, & deserve any constitutional rights so they can pursue their rights of happiness, ..which of course is to export terror all over the world in the name of islam!

Terrorists who do not openly represent any legal government, respect no laws of military engagement, make no distinction in whom they MURDER, & are indoctrinated on the fine art of murder, assassination, & respect no laws of any g-damn decency.

Shall we as a nation "disqualify" our ability to extract future terror acts, because our military "might" be engaging in "torture" which is loosely defined by liberal do gooders, & the liberal media, ..& by McCAin posing as a moderate conservative in conflict with the Bush administration so he can be immortalized as at least 1-good republican still in good standing by his liberal contemporaries that reside in the senate, ..& all the nicities, & priveleges that are bestowed upon such by the mainstream media as "acceptable" alternatives to the republican party!

McCain ought to be ashamed of himself, as some other republicans who want to be ''accepted" by their fellow liberal democrat senators!

For chrise sakes...nobody is advocating "real" torture upon terrorists, & to tie & hamstring our military, & deny them FUTURE options to extract necessary information from terror murderer's that could prevent a catastrophic terror act is absolutely insane, & irresponsible!

This is NOT the first time John McCain has "prostituted" himself for the sake of himself as being seen as an acceptable alternative for some democratic voters.

MY only wish is , ...God forbid, "IF" a major terror act is established to happen in the future against America, or Americans.....is that John McCain, & his CHUMMY fellow liberal democrats are WELL REMEMBERED for giving, & guaranteeing the terror enemy ALL that is needed for them to accomplish its goal of successful terror!

God help such people see themselves as the dangerous, stupid..& suicidal behavior as these people really are in their quest for so called, "rights" for a terror enemy that never sleeps, or ever holds any notion of peace for the rest of humanity!

In truth I will say....John McCain could not make a "pimple" on a presidents as.s, ..as he is much more "disingenuine", ..than ever the republican he has ever claimed to be!

His past actions, ..& present actions shall NOT be forgotten!

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"Resist institutionalized american liberalism"!

mikeey

Stu Ghatze,AMERICA comes first as they should, and always,so the rubbish
and that u say means nothing to us,we believe in the USA and thats that.

so go back to your where

u come from and behave your self.

regards mikeey

TimmyBoy

McCain knows more about the consequences of torture than most of us here because of his unfortunate first hand experience. I support McCain's efforts in the Congress to ban all torture.

FinnMacCool

This is why I love McCain. Any Republican who can **** of Stu is someone who I would vote for in a heart beat. Okay sure he doesn't have the same views as me but at least he is more honest then the next politician and he isn't always constantly praising Bush etc.

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"Idealists foolish enough to throw caution to the winds have advanced mankind and have enriched the world.

"The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue. "

"The motto should not be: Forgive one another; rather understand one another. "
-Emma Goldman

Simon W. Moon

Opposition the ammendment aids the terrorists and put our troops in greater danger.

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...we find it to be ...political superstition that governmental power is subject to no restraints. ...in a popularly governed nation, the government is simply a committee of management ... this committee of management has no intrinsic authority. ...its authority is given by those appointing it; and has just such bounds as they choose to impose.

Stu Ghatze

This is NOT about Bush, ..can you Bush haters finally get that through your heads?

PLEASE DEFINE WHAT "YOU" THINK "REAL" TORTURE IS, ..or perhaps you will choose to decline this invitation in order to complete the full circle of avoiding issues as the democrats like to do, ..but are the first to condemn, & point their fingers at others?

This bill McCain is sponsoring, ..that liberals LOVE,... is dangerous to the security of America, ..& think NOT that terrorists are not licking their chops at the utter futility it will leave our military intel people.

I thank God...none of our past great WWII combat military generals are not still here to see such insane behavior in the senate that can do nothing but serve the "best" interests of the terror enemy with such a shortsighted imbecelic view on self righteousness.

May God grant these self absorbed, self righteous senators longevity to live long enough to reap the rewards & consequences of their own misguided actions!

What next from our "caring & sensitive" senate; .."Perhaps an american financed 401K pension plan for TERRORISTS to help offset the costs, & dangers of being a long term terrorist"???

Or perhaps...give individual terrorists a tax payed based legal defense team of Alan Dershowitz, & Robert Shapiro!

I'am more than quite sure that THEY would graciously agree to defending base murderers & beheaders; ..& even help them with their book deals AFTER they got them all aquitted, ..after of course they all charged the United States government of being racists, & islamic haters first!

Australianlibertarian

Stu Ghatz let me say this;

If America had/has more intelligence operatives that could speak Arabic, Farsi, and Indonesian, maybe we wouldn't need to torture people, because US intelligence services could gather usefull intelligence and prevent and prosecute those willing to commit terrorist acts.

Sure the U.S may not perform torture, but that doesn't mean that they outsource it to other countries??

Also I'd like to know if torture actually gives any usefull information, or does the recieving person just tell the torturer exactly what he/or she wants to here?

As soon as you allow governments grey areas of power they will abuse it. Whether it be in the U.S or Australia.

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I like liberals because they believe in moral freedoms. I like fiscal conservatives because they believe in financial freedoms. The problem is; I just don't like the rest of their policies!

Libertarian all the way!

hiker

I think I will let Senator McCain speak for himself

http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?f...ontent_id=1611

Feel free to read the entire text. A few points of my own: Sen. McCain knows better than nearly any other American alive today what it means to be tortured. He also knows the things he said to end the abuse. He has to know from being on the recieving end just how useless the entire practice is.

Terrorists already know they will be detained and treated fairly by the Americans. They think we are weak already, this will not change their opinion. I personally do not care what happens to a man that has raised a gun to our troops, or done anything in another way that lead to the death of An American. But I do care about recieving accurate intelligence to keep our people alive. That intelligence is being derived through conventional methods, this just makes sure it stays that way. Otherwise, you have people saying whatever they think we want to hear just to make it stop. So again, I don't have moral qualms, only questions of accuracy in intelligence.

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http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7604/yy3oa.jpg

Australianlibertarian

Absolutely agree hiker.

As I have said in the previous posts, the US and other national intelligence and law enforcement agencies could fight terrorism more effectively by having more field agents that can speak, and read Arabic, Farsi, and Indonesian fluently.

Secondly the CIA, and our Australian equivalent (ASIO) need to readily share information with other international intelligence services. As we saw from 9/11 the terrorist plot, the individuals organised the plot in many different countries.

Thirdly, there needs to be better integration and cooperation between intelligence agencies and local law enforcement. If I recall correctly, from the 9/11 report (please correct me if I am wrong) that if the CIA and FBI had cooperated and shared information, there could have been a good chance that the 9/11 hijackers could have been apprehended.

The use of torture, or coercive practices that are meant to humilate a person's certain cultural practices, to 'gain' intelligence only further worsens the USA's reputation in the Middle East.

OdgenTugbyGlub

I think the Onion had the best thing about this.