Napoleon's Nightingale

I have another question heh. The step system would only work on the first row..after that you'd need a lot of people or something capable of pushing the blocks into place so they are against the other stones. Have you considered the use of Elephants in your system? Elephants would be capable of pulling the weight and would be far more productive than the use of slaves to lug the huge blocks around and slaves would not be capable of pushing the blocks into place and couldn't pull them into place after the first row. Elephants were successfully trained to perform specific tasks in various parts of the world and Elephants are far more enduring, capable, and productive than slaves when it comes to the hardest labor. In addition, I believe that the Eyptians had a far more advanced mechanical capacity than we give them credit especially considering the fact that they traded with many of the worlds most advanced mechanical and engineering societies. I believe that the Eyptians contracted some of the worlds most advanced mechanical and engineering minds to aid in construction. After all, Giza is the most advanced pyramid in Egypt..none of the other pyramids come close. So why Giza?

teacher

My my, we do try to catch ol' teacher don't we. You're getting ahead there NN. I've got this pegged, right down to the last detail. The methods I put forth I've used moving safes. If it works why change. It worked back then. Occam's Razor. The simple is usually the answer. Hang tight, you bring me to the next step. Gotta couple more drawings to make. So I take it you can't find flaw SO FAR?

There is no evidence today of Elephants. Don't need them either. I don't think slaves were used either. We'll get to that later. Be careful in saying can't because I'll prove you wrong.

Why Giza? It's the culmination of 150 years of practice building pyramids. It's all so simple. And I'll teach it to you.

Napoleon's Nightingale

I'm not trying to catch you..I'm trying to understand your theory. You've moved a 2.5 ton safe with nothing but logs? I'm still confused by what the lever would be constructed of that wouldn't snap under the weight of a 2.5 ton slab of stone. No person could push the lever down thereby lifting a 2.5 ton stone but Elephants could do the job and who or what would be capable of pushing a 2.5 ton stone into place? Elephants were often hunted in ancient Egypt for their tusks so why not use them in hard labor especially considering the benefits? After the Elephants died they could keep the tusks. Elephants were used in construction projects in India so why not Egypt?

I'll wait until your theory is complete before I make such a judgement. How do you propose the Egyptians pulled the stones from the quary wall and up and out of said quary?

The stone and logs could not have moved themselves..something must have pushed and pulled it.

150 years of accidents, relatively small, and very unstable pyramids. Are you saying that an Egyptian all by himself had a random ephiphany on how to build the perfect pyramid with no influence from the outside world? Egypt was far from isolationist and was heavily influenced by the outside world as the outside world was influenced by Egypt. Building Giza would have required expert architects, mathematicians, astronomers, engineers, mechanics, etc. The Egyptians showed a clear lack of expertise in all but one of those in the construction of all the other pyramids. There are many pyramid structures which pre-date the Egptian pyramids so I don't doubt that the Egyptians were heavily influenced by those structures and were given advice by more architectually sophisticated societies on how to build them.

Old and wise

I would think that you would not call them engineers. Magicians maybe.

__________________
Old and wise

We have met the enemy and he is us. (Pogo)
The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook. (William James)

teacher

[QUOTE] Before we move on to the method of getting blocks higher than the first level, I'll deal with the minutia of moving blocks snug against each other. I've used this method in installing safe deposit boxes weighing more than a thousand lbs. with just me and a partner using the handle end of a 12 lb. sledgehammer. So throw some more guys at it and a bigger hammer and it will work.

Fig. 1 shows our block on rollers up against the next sitting block. Of course when you lever the block up to get the rollers out you push away from the sitting block and when you let it down you will have a gap as in Fig. 2.

Fig. 3 shows the side view of men putting pressure on the block with a log. Fig 4. shows a top view of same. Two rows of men (1 and 2) holding pressure against the block while men use log 3 as a battering ram. This DOES work. It will take a few bashes. There is another method to get the block even closer than Fig. 2 leaves it but it's more work then necessary when you have enough manpower around. Now keep in mind that none of this is theory. I've done this time and time again. I understand how these concepts may be difficult to grasp and/or believe but I speak the truth. Run them by your local safe mover and they will back me up.

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Napoleon's Nightingale

A sledgehammer made out of iron...not a log. I had guessed you were going to sudgest bashing the stones with battering rams.


Whynot build rollars into the block and calculate how to land the stone on the rollars?

So, who would be strong enough to lift the logs and ram the stone? The logs would have to be extremely large and long, heavy, dense, and durable. What kind of logs are you talking about? The logs wouldn't move the stone..thats like saying that by ramming a car into the wall of a building I can push the building off of it's foundation. If anything the log would splinter and break apart or damage the stone...but move it..I doubt it. In my opinion it's far more plausible for an elephant to move the stone. Elephants are heavy and strong enough to perform the task. Elephants had been used in India to build structures so it is very plausible.

With modern materials.

teacher

[QUOTE]I know bro. Just giving you a hard time.

Me and one guy with crowbars and metel rollers. Understand that this is SLIGHTLY more primative and they will be going through some logs. We did have a lever made of Hichory that was amazingly strong. Also consider using green wood which is stronger and more supple, less likely to crack. Mahogony and Teak also come to mind.
Wood. I don't know what to say other than I've done it. Some day I will put this on film.

Then you don't understand the power of a lever. I've lifted one end of a 5000 lb. safe myself in exactly the method I've decribed. Bank people where I used to show up in the morning used to say the same things you are now. At the end of the day they used to say if they hadn't seen it they wouldn't have believed it.
Not saying they weren't. Just not nessesary. Put a rope around the block and have a team of men pull it.


We'll get there.

Like I said, a team of men. Ten would be more than enough. Remember, I've done this. My safe moving parter and I loved the days when we had two extra guys to help. Then we could make shortcuts. It's all in the technique.
Why not? I have. You might want to take a break and go research some of the pyramids that came before the Great Pyramid. They were not small.
Sure, by guys with massive brains like me.

teacher

Or hacks with missing limbs...

teacher

[QUOTE]The wooden butt end of the sledgehammer. Also at times used a 2' 4x4. The key is not the size of the ram rather keeping pressure on the object to be moved and the bashing just helps it bit by bit. I can see you don't understand this concept.

No evidence of that.
Four men can pick up and swing a 6" round 10' long log. that's all it takes.
Dude, I said before, they are gonna go through some logs. I went through some 4x4's.


YES THEY WOULD. I'VE DONE IT.

Then I can't help you. I've done it.
Fine. You go get your Elephants and I'll do it my way. We'll see who gets done first.
I'm applying simple techniques to what they had. I see you have no idea how much you can do with a lever. Have you not ever used a crow bar?

Napoleon's Nightingale

*BITE*


Slightly more primitive? Thats a massive amount of wood you're talking about. Where would it come from?


Ok, I have no reason to doubt your claim however I want to be the first one to see the film...I'll bring the popcorn.

With modern technology. Have you ever tried such a system with a 70 ton stone?

Why is it neccessary to set up a massive system of rolling logs and battering rams when it's cheaper, more simplistic, and more productive to use Elephants?

I have. Compared to the pyramids constructed in the rest of the world and to that of Giza, the other Egyptian pyramids are exteremely primitive.

Hannibal would love you.