Technocratic_Utilitarian

This is a post generally discussing the idea that Hitler and the Nazis were Christian in addition to the Nazis at least Christians being sympathetic to the Nazi cause. For the purpouses of this thread, I will only focus on christians and nazis, not on businessment etc.


Moroever, when Hitler came to power as "head nazi" in the 1930's, do you know what he did? What was one of the first policies he enacted during the 30's? Was it to crush the evil church? Kill and persecute the Christians? NOPE! Instead, he made Christian school prayer mandatory for the 1930's German schoolchildren who grew up to be his dreaded SS

As we can see above, it's highly occult and non-christian of the Nazis to FORCE CHRISTIAN prayer on schoolchildren. These children were educated in "christian moral family values" such as the condemnation of sexual "perversions" rather than the promotion of healthy marriages and parenting methods

In a way, he's a lot like modern Christian Fundamentalists who rabidly assault women's reproductive rights as well as the rights and freedoms of those "evil homosexual sodomiziers."

More importantly, people freqently misunderstand where Hitler furnished his ideas. Where did Hitler come up with the idea that the Jews were the bane of existence? Did he wake up one day and go, "man, I hate those ****ing jews!" If that sounds absurd to you, that's because it is. In reality----Hitler got his anti-semitic ideology from none other than--that's right--Protestentism. Lutheranism, to be exact. [b] Hitler closely followed the anti-Semitic teachings of none other than Martin Luther, founder of Protestantism, but this isn't surprising since [...]Martin Luther wrote a book titled "On Jews and their Lies".


Now, I should address the post you made dealing with Hitler's "oppression" of the Catholic and german churches. In reality, there was no such thing. In fact, Hitler had ZERO problem with the Roman Catholic Church. His problem was with the GERMAN branch of the Church. You mentioned that Hitler signed a Concordate in 1933 with the Roman Catholics---do you know what the purpouse of this document was? Was it anti-christian? No. It was an attempt to consolidate power within Germany. There were many groups in germany over which he had no authority, and Hitler didn't like being powerless. He had no problem with Christianity---he was Christian! He just wanted the German Branch to fall in line and surrender politically to his "folkish" regime. Minor disagreements do not = mass oppression. Furthermore, even if Hitler did feud with German Christian churches, this does not prove he was not a Christian, because Christians have fought (quite violently), other Christians for several hundred years. In fact, Christians sacked Constantiniople even thought they were Christian! According to that logic, they must not be Christian...which is absurd to say.


The notion that you might think Hitler was a pagan is equally crazy, for various reasons not excluding the above discription of Hitler, BY Hitler. Foremost, a pagan state would not pray to Jesus in its schoolrooms or enter into a concordat with the Catholic church. Furthermore, the introduction of "paganism" into the Nazi "religion" is irrelevant, because Christianity is also filled to the brim with Paganism. Many of the very "Christian" traditions you hold dear to your heart have their firm roots planted in--that's right--paganism. Regardless, much of the Paganism was introduced simply morphed the type of Christianity into a Christo-pagan blend. It was merely a different denomination. Paganism was used in an attempt to rope him the German masses who were easy pray to nostalgia of Germany's past. This, however, did not make the masses non-christians nor did it make Hitler a non-christian. The Nazis were very much Christian.

You could say that Hitler and the Nazis couldn't possibly be Christian, since they killed millinos of people using eugenics, slavery, and concentration camps. Well, that's not a valid argument, since the Catholic Church killed many, many individuals as well. Further, the United States, made up of many, many christians, had Eugenics programmes and concentration camps--just like germany!


Now, you also mentioned that German Bishops were against Hitler. This is also nonsensical. In fact, in 1939, The Bishop of Hannover (among others) signed the following statement: "The foundation of this institute is based on the conviction that Jewish influence in all areas of German life, including therefore that of the Church and religon, must be brought to light and eliminated"

Many German Bishops and Christians didn't give two ****s about Eugenics or Property violations of the Jews. In fact, they applauded it! This is hardly a condemnation of Hitler. Furthermore, historical whitewash. The worldwide Christian community at the time was strongly anti-semitic, and collectively gave little help to the Jews. Further, good "christian nations" in fact prevented jews from getting to safety for NO REASON! Allies knew about the horrors of the concentration camp by the start of 1942, from spy networks and the eyewitness accounts of escapees, but no one cared. Anti-semitism was powerful and omnipresent: Canada turned away 3,000 Jewish child refugees at the border (all are believed to have eventually died at Auschwitz). America turned away 30,000 Jewish child refugees on its own, as did many of the European nations who were in a position to save countless Jews. THis nonsense about Christian outrage didn't come to bear untill after the war was already over. There had been a decade of mistreatment KNOWN to christians---who did nothing but shut up their homes. How "christian" of them.

Why help those dirty Jews? Martin Luther even hated them!

Essentially, THe Christian church did almost zilch to aid the Jews, they applauded Hitler's treatment of them untill the noose started to tighten around their OWN necks. Ask yourself this question as well:

If Hitler's anti-Semitism offended all Christian principles at the time, then why did Germany's largely Christian population give power to an outspoken anti-Semite?

The answer is simple, if you are honest. The Christians were just as bad, and everything Hitler dished out, they believed hook, line, and sinker. Hitler was not an affront to Christianity--he was their messiah.


I also find it ironic in that, while all this was going on, the Catholic Church, instead of decrying Hitler, applauded him some more! In fact, The RC church never even excommunicated Hitler, nor did they add his "Mein Kampf" to their long list of banned books! In fact, Pope Pius XII himself ordered church officials in Berlin to send "warmest congratulations" to Hitler on his birthday every year, as shown in the picture at right of Archbiship Cesare Orsenigo and Hitler on April 20, 1939.

Christians have banned Brave New World on book lists, yet Mein Kampf was perfectly fine. How Christian. To book, the POPE HIMSELF made it policy to congratulate HITLER...HITLER! Get it congratulate HITLER.


That's hardly all. There is far, far more, but, before I make another post, do you know what the MOTTO of the SS divisions was? Was it "Hitler is great?" No. Was it "Thor rules?" No. It Gott Mit Uns. Note the capitalized G, which refers to Judeo-christian deities.

__________________
[...]a bizarre concept called democracy, in which ruling power is given to whomever is most skillful at directing the herd instincts of the largest masses of their most ignorant citizens"

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Technocratic_Utilitarian

I am not saying he's wrong at all. He could be right, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest the opposite. I have never heard of the man, but I will check him out.



Ok. Now here I think you do make a point. There were groups of catholics and protestants who did resist him within Germany. That is correct, but the thing to remember is why and when. Groups within the Nazi party resisted other groups and factions within the Nazi party. That doesn't mean they were anti-nazi. Simply because groups resisted domination does not mean:

A. The groups weren't christian supporters of Nazism earlier
B. The nazis themselves weren't largely christians.

You also speak of the Catholic Bishops. I will speak of these people in my post I will attatch to the bottom of this post.
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Ok, Now, the thing I am going to focus on most is the notion that the Nazis are supposedly not Christian. Juging the evidence, this is hard to believe.

1. First of all, let us look at the childhood and continuing years of Adolph Hitler. What many people seem to overlook is that, since birth, Hitler was brought up and raised an steadfast catholic. According to Hitler himself, communicated via conversation to General Gerhart Engel, Hitler commented, that "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so".. As we can clearly see, straight from the horse's mouth, Hitler labels himself a Catholic. It's absurd to claim that someone is NOT of the faith he says he is. We would have no reason to doubt that the Crusaders who sacked Constantinope were any less Christian. It is also common historical knowledge that, all through his youth, Hitler was a catholic Alter Boy.

It's also further absurd to claim that Hitler wasn't Christian, because his autobiographical text, Mein Kampf, is riddled with allusions and references to the greatness of God as well as the Lord, Jesus. For example, in Mein Kampf, Hitler states, "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

As we can clearly see from the above, Hitler was no atheist and he was no "occultist." Not only did he believe in the Almighty Creator, he believed in the Lord our Savior. Now...you might say that this isn't "our god," and it isn't "our savior," but there is no basis for that claim, due to the extensive christian heritage and upbringing of Hitler, especially considering his long background involvement in the Catholic Church (Alter boy, self-proclaimed Catholic forever etc). As such, and will be further demonstrated, it is not unreasonable to assume that he was, indeed, a Christian.

Lucidthots

Wow......you are a real bigot Tech-Ut!

What if I did a piece called, "the uncanny SEMITISM of the Bolshevik Revolution?"

Leon Trotsky (Lev Davidovich Bronstein)-- JEW!

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin-- JEW!

Karl Marx-- JEW!

Yankov Sverdlov (Solomon)-- JEW

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~There is no religion higher than truth~ H.P. Blavatsky

teenonfire4him77

what are you trying to prove here? the KKK were Christians(Protestants) too...does that make them any less evil? Do i condone what they did? Heck no!
There are many people who distort and twist the word of God, and use it as an excuse for violence against a group of people, and that is completly and utterly not Christian...no matter how much they try to rationlize it.
'the greatest cause of atheism today is Christians who acknoledge Jesus with their lips, and walk out the door, and deny it by their lifetyle.
That is what an unbelieving world...simply finds unbelievable.'

Technocratic_Utilitarian

I am far from bigoted. I am dispelling the Nazis = non-christians myth. I used to be a very tolerant person, and then I learned that doesn't work. To get stuff done you have to be as viscious as those arond you. I am not saying All Christians are nazis. I am saying many Nazis were CHristian, incluidng Hitler. The bulk of facts support this claim.

The sad part is, even if the Nazi leadres themselves weren't CHristian, they did what they did in the name of jesus and God, and the citizens who WERE christian--the overwhelming number of citizens---loved it.

teenonfire4him77

Thats not something new or something not expected to happen, but if we are in a close walk with God, then we would be able to see right through it.

3Don't be fooled by what they say.For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction.[a] 4He will exalt himself and defy every god there is and tear down every object of adoration and worship. He will position himself in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God. 5Don't you remember that I told you this when I was with you?
2 Thessalonians 2:3-5
a. Greek the son of destruction. (aka son of satan-not literal although)


10He will use every kind of wicked deception to fool those who are on their way to destruction because they refuse to believe the truth that would save them.
2 Thessalonians 2:10

'Hail hitler'? having to pledge undying loyalty to hitler and germany...seeing anything similar?

We have always been warned of false prophets, the only sad thing is, that those Christians were not firm enough in their faith to see through it...that is whats sad.

You can't group every Christian in teh same category...cause in this day in age...unfortunatly, its not the same...not at all.

Columbusite

You should have included this quote by Hitler which was said in a speech in April 26, 1933.

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . We need believing people."

And boy did he get them. Legions of believers who never questioned what they were taught. When you have nothing to measure right and wrong and rely solely on belief to determine that, you will logically end up in a very bad place. That's because you don't know WHY something is right or wrong or somewhere inbetween. This has proven itself true over and over with such redundancy. This is what happens without reason and compassion as a guide.

Lucidthots

Oh really....what kind of "vicious" things have you done to people?

Lucidthots

What kind of "vicious" things do you do to people.

I am curious.

Lucidthots

To "get stuff done" you do what to people?