Do you support the goals of Hamas and Hezbollah?

Goobieman · 12-04-08, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laila

If Israeli miltary deliberatey targeted civilian homes or areas that hold heavily populated civilians and civilians died as a result. It is not colleteral damage they are doing but coldblooded murder.

Absent a legitimate military target, yes.

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If Israel targeted a base and miltants and civilians also died accidentally, then it is colleteral damage.

Glad that you finally understand.

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Israel did the first more than the second.

Not according to the HRW source posted earlier.
Perhaps you have something that supports your statement?

shiznit770 · 12-04-08, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goobieman

If you were standing next to a military target when a bomb from the opposing side lands on it, you were not murdered. Period.

This was not the case in the Lebanon Conflict 2006. Israel announced it would attack a target and then treated all people in the vicinity as combatants. In some cases there was no military objective present. Do you believe telling people you're going to bomb their homes ahead of time relinquishes you of the burden of targeting military objectives?

Laila · 12-04-08, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goobieman

Perhaps you have something that supports your statement?

You mean like Amnesty's report?

Goobieman · 12-04-08, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit770

This was not the case in the Lebanon Conflict 2006. Israel announced it would attack a target and then treated all people in the vicinity as combatants

Show this to be true.
And, even if so - did they attack legitimate military targets?
If so, then combatant or not, if a civilian died in the attack, it eas collateral damage.

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In some cases there was no military objective present

Show this to be true.

Quote:

Do you believe telling people you're going to bomb their homes ahead of time relinquishes you of the burden of targeting military objectives?

You haven't shown that they did not go after military targets
But even if so - giving civilians fair warning before an attack is fair warning.
And, if you've been given warning to leave, and you then chose to stay...?

Goobieman · 12-04-08, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laila

You mean like Amnesty's report?

Whatever you think you have....
Please post the source that shows that Israel more often than not attacked civilians rather than military targets.

shiznit770 · 12-04-08, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goobieman

Show this to be true.
And, even if so - did they attack legitimate military targets?
If so, then combatant or not, if a civilian died in the attack, it eas collateral damage.

Show this to be true.

You haven't shown that they did not go after military targets
But even if so - giving civilians fair warning before an attack is fair warning.
And, if you've been given warning to leave, and you then chose to stay...?

Quote:

Our research during 2006 concluded that the IDF attacks responsible for a majority of the civilian deaths in Lebanon were indiscriminate; that is, they failed to distinguish between civilian and military targets. Many of the attacks in which civilians died took place at times when there was no evidence that Hezbollah fighters or weapons were in the vicinity, despite IDF claims that the high proportion of civilian deaths in Lebanon was due to Hezbollah hiding its rockets and fighters in villages and towns. While the IDF often warned civilians to evacuate areas in southern Lebanon, it then acted in many cases as if its warnings gave it license to treat all persons who did not flee as combatants. In southern Lebanon, many people remained even after warnings because of age, infirmity, responsibility for livestock and crops, inability to afford exorbitant taxi fares charged for evacuation, or fear of becoming another roadside casualty of IDF bombing. Thus, the IDF's indiscriminate bombardments had devastating consequences for civilians.

Civilians under Assault

So you believe that if you give civilians fair warning, no military target is necessary?

Laila · 12-04-08, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goobieman

Whatever you think you have....
Please post the source that shows that Israel more often than not attacked civilians rather than military targets.

Amnesty International details Israeli war crimes in Lebanon

Quote:

The report pointed out that international law governing the conduct of war prohibits any direct attack on civilian objects, as well as indiscriminate attacks that fail to distinguish between military and civilian targets.

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It also disputed Israeli claims that civilian facilities were legitimate military targets, because of their potential use by Hezbollah.

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Amnesty International delegates visiting towns and villages in south Lebanon found that in village after village houses had been subject to heavy artillery shelling as well as having been destroyed by precision-guided, air-delivered munitions

Goobieman · 12-04-08, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laila

Amnesty International details Israeli war crimes in Lebanon

Ah yes. AI.

Quote:

The report pointed out that international law governing the conduct of war prohibits any direct attack on civilian objects, as well as indiscriminate attacks that fail to distinguish between military and civilian targets.

This isnt news.

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It also disputed Israeli claims that civilian facilities were legitimate military targets, because of their potential use by Hezbollah.

Amnesty International simply disputing Israeli claims at to their objectives isnt proof.

Quote:

Amnesty International delegates visiting towns and villages in south Lebanon found that in village after village houses had been subject to heavy artillery shelling as well as having been destroyed by precision-guided, air-delivered munitions

And this proves... what?

Laila · 12-04-08, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit770

So you believe that if you give civilians fair warning, no military target is necessary?

Don't mean to be a bitch but if he believes that, it can work for anything ... a pre warning i mean.

Case in point.
Ex-employee says FAA warned before 9/11 - USATODAY.com

Laila · 12-04-08, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit770

So you believe that if you give civilians fair warning, no military target is necessary?

Don't mean to be a bitch but if he believes that, it can work for anything ... a pre warning i mean.

Case in point.
Ex-employee says FAA warned before 9/11 - USATODAY.com

View Poll Results: Do you support the goals of Hamas and Hezbollah?
Yes to Hamas	2	4.55%
Yes to Hezbollah	2	4.55%
Yes to both	6	13.64%
No to Hamas	5	11.36%
No to Hezbollah	3	6.82%
No to both	32	72.73%
other (please specify)	5	11.36%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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