Pinu7

They will not support it for two reasons.
1. They are fundamentally for a balance budget. Under Obama's tax plan we will have a huge deficit, at least during this ****ty economic time. Though, the GOP has been notoriously known for not sticking to this rule.

2. They still(wrongly) believe in trickle down. They will not vote for a tax plan where most of the cuts go for the middle class instead of business owners and their corporations. I just do not see them supporting a more extreme progressive tax plan.

rsixing

I whole-heartedly agree that governmental mis-management of funds is key to our current tax situation, across the board.

When I was a federal employee I used to see the mad spending at the end of the fiscal year so the next annual budget wouldn't be decreased. It used to, and still does, piss me off and is, IMO, total mismanagement of tax payers funds with no oversight.

This year, in Oregon, our budgetary shortfall is something like 1 billion and our 'governor' (term loosely used) is estimating a need to cut each agency's budget by 1.2% in the biennium. That's approximately 69 million from our education system which is already underfunded, infrastructure in serious ill-repair and in need of attention, over-crowded class rooms because of a large population of illegal alien students, partially because of the 'no child left behind' federal mandate debacle, partially because of past state government administrations specifically targeting essential service agencies for budget cuts when they didn't get their way (ex-Gov. Barbara Roberts administration comes to mind) and the long-term inability to recover losses because of this type of vindictive governance.

So I guess the point of this rant is do not, repeat do not cut education. It is already purposefully underfunded because of attitudes not unlike yours and incapable of meeting the educational needs of our children.

A higher education should be provided for every American irrespective of their ethnic, social or economic status. Just as primary and secondary educations are provided providing a higher education is totally capable within the richest nation of peoples in the world.

What I find disturbing, though, is people like you who like to color this possibility in negative terms like "communism and anarchy" and also try to create an altuistic perspective with terms like "utopia". As if such comparisons buttress their position. Hardly.

IMO this type of argumentation shows a purposeful disregard for our children and their futures. An unwillingness of some of our populace, not unlike yourself, to work hard and sacrifice for our children and their futures. Does that answer your query "if (I am) against hard work or sacrifice"? I hope so. Because when you pointed that finger at me you ended up with 3 fingers pointed back at yourself.

Ahh...nice attempt at poisoning the well but please show where I have stated I want to "(spend) like a sailor and (stick) it to the top 5%"? I don't even think our discussion has gravitated to my positions so if you really want to be informed of what my position is ask me. Don't presume my position based on your own expectations of where I stand.

It was not a well thought out question and was directed towards your reaction to McCain's position on progressive taxation and my understanding that he, as a republican, is pro-capitalism AND pro-progressive taxation and as such you were against capitalism as much as you were against him. I apologize.

emdash

my sister in the VA talks about this as well. I think it's pretty despicable, but it just goes to show.

attitudes not unlike mine? I am not vengeful and greedy. I am simply reluctant to throw all of my tax dollars at a broken system until something is done to fix it.

kayleigh katz suggested free college too. when I asked her who would pay for it, she said she didn't know or care. the taxpayers will be the ones paying for it, of course.

so my main concern is, will "free college" mean that gov't gives $30K/yr to everyone over the age of 18 to spend at an institution of their choice? or would you like to see public high schools extended through the 16th grade?

some things look great on paper. no one will argue that utopia and communism (little c) are extremely great on paper, like no one will argue that college would be less stressful if it were free. but in practice, these things just don't work. utopia and communism go against human nature. anarchy creates chaos and regression. free college makes the federal deficit explode and breaks the taxpayers.

I have every regard for children and their futures. however, I am not willing to work hard and sacrifice for any ADULT student who is not willing to do the same for himself in the first place.

you have already shown your support for increased education spending AND a continuation of social security which will need to involve federal bailing out. increasing spending in these two areas while the deficit is so high, and then supporting the progressive tax (I assume you support it, since you called me anti-capitalism) seems very much like irresponsible expenditure (sailor-like in nature) at the cost of the top 5%.

if you don't support increased spending and progressive taxation, I apologize for misreading you.

no problem, but I do not consider mccain to be much of a republican OR a capitalist.

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I know nothing

American

The rich came out of the womb that way right? Bull****, you cannot guarantee equal outcome, and shouldn't. Resouces aren't limited, because you don't know what the limit it.

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"Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding and should, therefore, be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. Their meaning is not to be sought for in metaphysical subtleties which may make anything mean everything or nothing at pleasure." -- Thomas Jefferson יהוה

UtahBill

Married filing jointly....
15% on the income between $16,050 and $65,100; plus $1,605.00

25% on the income between $65,100 and $131,450; plus $8,962.50

28% on the income between $131,450 and $200,300; plus $25,550.00

33% on the income between $200,300 and $357,700; plus $44,828.00

35% on the income over $357,700; plus $96,770.00


you aren't paying that rate on income lower than 357k...So the extra tax rate only applies to the income higher than that...so if you paid 36K before, and 40K now, that is 4K divided by your total income tax....

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Education is expensive, ignorance is costly.

Each generation should have more opportunities than the last, but not at the expense of the next.

rsixing

That's like waiting for your car to break down until you fix it rather then being proactive. Obviously something is wrong with the system and it can be corrected but to penalize line items like education is not a solution to the problem, it only aggravates.

So? We are a nation of individuals but the greatest downfall to democracy I see is the emphasis is on individualism, not the whole. I am more important then my neighbors, my communy, my city, my county, my state my nation. Sad.

It's a solution we need to find and as the richest nation on earth it should be a non-issue. Just as homelessness should be non-extant. There should be no hungry on our streets. There should be no poverty. Etc.

What I gather from the above paragraph is the whole issue for you is you.

I don't see this with the narrow perspective of "my child or my children" and how a funded higher education would only benefit them. This is about our neighborhoods, our communities, our nation. Maybe my view of the big picture is more inclusive and yours is more exclusive but then that is the reputation of much of this nation particularly the right wing; America a nation of self.

I support an education system that is fully funded and meets the needs of every American citizen. Not just the ones who have parents who can afford to pay for it or for those willing to go into the service (like I did) to pay for it.

I support SS.

I support progressive taxation. You make more you pay more. I think if you search this out something like 80% of economists believe progressive taxation is the one way to keep budgetary deficits down. Particularly if the loopholes used by the top 5% are closed and they actually begin to pay their taxes.

And before you go off into the standard "redistribution of wealth" mantra which usually accompanies responses from the right wing, conservative, fiscal conservative base when confronted with progressive taxation remember this; the only redistribution of wealth that has been going on is the redistribution of wealth from the lower and middle class to the upper class for decades. Well upper class, it's pay up time. Time to pay your fair share. Time to stop immorally and unethically avoiding your responsibilities because you can afford to hide your assets from taxation. Time to be an American and sacrifice for the betterment of your country.

UtahBill

The bolded part, you cannot possibly find a post of mine that says such a thing.

I don't want to gurantee equal outcome, just equal opportunity. People will aim low in life and fail to achieve the american dream no matter how much opportunity is given, so equal outcome in impossible. They are free to choose poverty, if that is what they want.
But, if they want to climb up the ladder, the last thing we need is a bunch of greedy, selfish types removing the rungs of the ladder as they climb it.
No, I don't know what the limit of the pie is, and neither are you able to explain why you think it is infinite. So, you cop out in your post....

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Education is expensive, ignorance is costly.

Each generation should have more opportunities than the last, but not at the expense of the next.

emdash

your way is like pumping gas into your car more quickly because there's a gaping hole in your gas tank. I'm saying, stop buying gas until you've fixed the tank. I heart analogies.

wrong. if education and SS are sucking us dry and we're still getting stupid results (and kids), let's call a spade a spade.

the greatest downfall to democracy I see is the replacement of personal responsibility and self-sufficiency with a false sense of entitlement manifested in emotional, whining rants about the inability of a democratic government to behave like a fascist dictatorship without actually BEING a fascist dictatorship. wipe your own damn butt.

see above paragraph please.

that is rich.

maybe your view of the picture is so skewed by your overweening "compassion" that you fail to see one minor fly in the ointment of your grand plans: WE ARE TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DEBT.

anyone over the age of 18 can decide for himself if he wants to go to school, buy a house, tour europe, smoke a cigarette, or lounge around all day in his underwear, and he can pay for those things without the help of the state. if that makes me unfeeling or narrow-minded, so be it.

you support spending a lot of money. a LOT of money.

and some MORE money. kind of like a sailor.

and sticking it to the top 5%.

this is immature and somewhat pathetic. talk about a nation of self, you sound like a pre-schooler.

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I know nothing

UtahBill

Of course, the really stupid ones are the dropouts, and the next level of stupid are those that attend, but don't pay attention....you can't teach a kid that doesn't go to school or zones out while there....
Education isn't sucking us dry, it is lack of education. If the kids don't care, and the parents don't care, why be surprised that some teachers give up on those kids....
Draft them all as soon as they hit 17....
If they aren't in school, and haven't graduated, let the army keep them busy until they learn to support themselves...

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Education is expensive, ignorance is costly.

Each generation should have more opportunities than the last, but not at the expense of the next.

TurtleDude

I did the obama tax calculator-My taxes will go from about 185K a year to 223K a year. That's a pretty big jump. And tell me what do I get for paying that much tax? No more than you do.

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