Hugh_Akston

So...57 other people have this crazy notion that child support is the same thing as slavery. I guess that means there are at least 58 people who are seriously confused. Your attempt to link the two is laughable at best. Of course you have the right to your opinion, as ridiculous as it may be, but you have that right nonetheless.

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John1234

I agree with your slavery and child support analogy.
I've known some people in really screwed up sittuations that had no way out.

Sometimes child support requirements wind up even exceeding the maximum total income potential of the father due to special circumstances.
And many states revoke the father's driving privilege very quickly, which only makes it more difficult for the father to make the money owed.

The bar needs to be placed much lower.
But there does have to be a bar though. There must be some protection for a single mother vs a deadbeat father.
But some of the things I have seen are completely ridiculous.

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"We are all Georgians". No Mr. McCain, We are all Americans.

Hugh_Akston

Did the definition of slavery somehow change in the past hour or so? Comparing child support to slavery is like comparing a football game to war. I'm appalled that anyone would even attempt to make such an outlandish comparison.

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macklin

if you go piece by piece through my argument, it is very thorough... very well thought .... and hundreds of sports announcers have made strong analogies between war and football ...

macklin

I am looking for someone to debate this issue with... If you want to ... I will debate until one of us is thoroughly confused, but because you didn't quote any of my words, nor read any of the articles that i listed, I don't think you read any of my words or references.... So let me give you a little quiz and you tell me the answers to each to test your knowledge of the CHILD SUPPORT SLAVERY SYSTEM.

In child support proceeding are you given a fair jury trial before they put you in jail?

Do they seize your bank account, take your income tax, without due process even if it is a mistake?

Is your passport revoked and or denied just for owing 2500?

Is it legally written in some states that men can be arrested for child support but not women?

Can a man be punished with child support proceedings even if he is not the chiild's father?

Can a man be punished with child support payments even if he never lived with the child and the child is genetically not his?

If a man is hurt or laid off can he be charged payments at his former level of income for up to nine months?

Does the court have free rule to deny lowering his child support payments even if he truly seems to be making less income?

If you can answer these questions, and you answer them correctly, I will beleive that you read through my hours of research on this and thus are then worth discussing the issue with and if you are able to answer these, I would like to debate you on the issues....

shiznit770

I think this thread should be added to sex education classes everywhere.

Hugh_Akston

You are comparing slavery to child support - NOT A VALID COMPARISON!

Sports announcers making analogies between football and war - NOT A VALID COMPARISON!

Just because someone else makes a bad analogy doesn't mean it's OK. Anyone who compares football to war obviously is ignorant of war. Anyone who pays child support and compares it to slavery obviously wasn't a slave. Any attempt to paint slavery and child support with the same brush is only done by someone who has no knowledge of slavery and what slaves had to endure.

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Hugh_Akston

There's nothing to debate, slavery and child support are not the same - not even close (and I pay child support myself, so I do have first hand knowledge of how this works).

What does this have to do with slavery?
What does this have to do with slavery?
What does this have to do with slavery?
What does this have to do with slavery?
What does this have to do with slavery?
What does this have to do with slavery?
What does this have to do with slavery?
What does this have to do with slavery?
Is the child support system completely fair? No it's not. It is pretty one-sided towards the mother most of the time, and on the rare cases where the father is granted custody, the female who pays the support is given more leniency than her male counterpart. Of course, this varies state-by-state. There isn't a national standard on child support because it is a states issue.

I, for example, pay child support in Indiana. It is one of the harshest states for child support. The rates are higher in Indiana as well because there are no alimony payments. Fall behind in Indiana and they won't play around. I've been upset, pissed off and disgruntled on numerous occasions by the system, but I would never ever compare the child support system to slavery - not in a million years (or even a million more).

It's one thing to take up a crusade against the child support system. It is unfair, unrelenting and unforgiving, but it is not slavery. You would serve your purpose far greater to drop the "slavery" tag line from your argument. Scream and shout all you want about how unfair the system is, but cease with the ignorant comparisons, it only makes you look ignorant of history.

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shiznit770

His argument had much more substance in the beginning, in my opinion. It looks like you only ready the last half and that's why you're confused about how slavery is being applied to the issue.

He begins with the comparison of prison labor to to slavery. The corporations benefiting from the arrangement push for stricter laws, specifically against those delinquent in their child-support payments. I think the debate on this issue has more merit than the one against the entire child-support system.

macklin

P/N did you read everything or almost everything that I wrote... if not please do. You are approaching a ridiculing and/or a harassing tone toward me for no reason ... i have directed nothing toward you. Please remain civil and respectful.

I will debate this issue fully with you. At one point in this post I took a wikipedia definition of slavery and superimposed the current standard.

Even in the wikipedia post it comment on the existence of numerous alternate methods of slavery ....

I understand in your head you may be thinking of whipping, beating, shackles, and physical suffering... I am more referring to the lack of due process of one sub set of the population, one group treated more harshlhy than another, one group opressed ot another's benefit, one not allowed to leave, one not allowed to reap his own rewards.... in fact Abraham who was forced to labor for his father without being paid felt like a SLAVE though he was not beaten because his father took the profit of his labor.

So i ask you, you define it ... what is it called when one group has less rights, less freedoms, fear of punishment, fear of physical harm (consider those in prison are beaten, sexual abused, and/or sometimes killed by other prisoners and staff members.) So what would you call it.

I would intensely love to debate you for as long as this debate takes.

The primary point is that the sytem encourages prison which forces one who may have been making twelve an hour to make only 19 cents an hour.

And i am not the only one calling that slavery. Judge Joe Brown in his court room show explained to a young drug dealer that if he lands up in jail he will be exploited like a slave.

And the most vivid point is the Thirteenth Amendment, which states that no one should be forced into slave labor exept those DULY convicted of a crime. Meaning that criminals are allowed to be exploited for slave labor ... Ok... that is the connection, but one of the things that lead men into jail is a lack of due process. the constitution is saying in JAIL WE WILL MAKE A SLAVE OF YOU, but only if we duly process you into jail, but CHILD SUPPORT IS NOT ADHERING TO DUE PROCESS. thus, child support laws expidite a citizen to a position of being a slave.... This is clear and simple, don't get mad at me... this is the system as it exists.

If you fall behind on child support, even if for a good reason such as illness, injury, or loss of job, you may still have to go to jail without DUE PROCESS, and in jail the system is admitting that they are treating you like a slave, forcing you to work for almost no pay at all... this is the wording of the thirteenth amendment. So the child support system is creative reinstitution of slavery ... a quick and easy way to get cheap labor.

AND THERE IS PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS. One third of male inmates claim to have been raped.

So if the court erroneously forces you into prison, it gets labor out of you and puts you in a position where 33% of the population is raped by other men. NOW THAT MAY BE THE MOST HORRENDOUS PART. Slaver of OLD may have whipped a slave, but SLAVERY OF NEW rapes its victims, literally.

Instead of us jousting back and forth... let's have a full own elongated debate from head to toe every single issue, every single article, every single law, every single relavent story. I will debate as long as it takes to discern the truth ... or until these laws are modified.

Will you debate me?