Simon W. Moon

another helpful hint - should you choose to accept it - is this:

The plural of anecdote is not data

__________________
"The barbarous custom of having men beaten who are suspected of having important secrets to reveal must be abolished. It has always been recognized that this way of interrogating men, by putting them to torture, produces nothing worthwhile."
- Napoleon Bonaparte to Berthier 11 Nov 1798 Napoleon on the Art of War

Simon W. Moon

macklin, you really need to do something else for a week or two. Just a bit of advice, one human to another.

__________________
"The barbarous custom of having men beaten who are suspected of having important secrets to reveal must be abolished. It has always been recognized that this way of interrogating men, by putting them to torture, produces nothing worthwhile."
- Napoleon Bonaparte to Berthier 11 Nov 1798 Napoleon on the Art of War

macklin

fictitious father's voice:

"That's what I thought too until my wife hit me with a toaster than called 911 and accused me of hitting her. I lost the house, forced to pay child support, but I fell into such a depression that I couldn't muster the energy to work or fight for myself ... I was contemplating suicide. Then the child support letters started coming... Now I'm in jail and I'm in even worse pscyhological shape. So I can't see this guy because ... I ... because ... I .... I'm... just because I am a male."

(story I heard on cops --- woman hit a man in the head with a toaster and blamed it on him ... he became homeless because of it ... the cops listened to the story of how he became homeless while he was on the street)

macklin

While more men are recruited into slavery, while more men are deprived civil rights, while they are being sexually tortured in prison, while they cry in court rooms unable to be free from a bad system, while no one seems to care about them, while people are suffering .... I don't think I'm working and doing enough... honestly, I feel that I should be making speeches in public,

I feel I should be raging loud in front of a group of people, I feel I should be protesting, organizing, building a mass of followers against 1. the prison system 2 the child support system 3 criminalization of minor drugs 4 the erosion of the bill of rights 5 the new lack of freedom of the american people.

They are slowing wrapping a wire of opression around us and we are too blind, or unconcerned, or deceived by our own little bits of happiness.

I need to work harder because you are taking it easy.

macklin

Man in England kills himself because CSA, their child support agency was taking all of his pay $500 a week, and leaving him with only $10.

CSA demands 'led to suicide' - News - Manchester Evening News

Now that this man, a nurse (must be an evil guy if he's willing to help take care of people) is dead, who are they going to milk dry....?

macklin

Often men who cannot break out of the cycle of child support payments or impriosonment simply kill themselves.

Child Support Casualties

macklin

Numerous Statistics about Child Support.

They posted here in summary.

I'll post another one, interpretting what I feel these numbers mean...

79% of parents with access to children paid child support in 1991, while only 56% of those without access paid child support. US Department of Census.
10% of fathers not paying ordered child support are resisting (the "deadbeats"). 66% lack the financial resources. US Government Accounting Office, HRD-92-39 FS.
95% of fathers having no employment problems for the past five years pay regularly; 81 percent pay in full and on time. Judi Bartfeld and Daniel R. Meyer, "Are There Really Deadbeat Dads? The Relationship Between Ability to Pay, Enforcement, and Compliance in Normal Child Support Cases." Social Service Review 68, (1994).
Among non-custodial fathers having experienced any unemployment, one-third paid nothing. [Once you're in over your head, there's no way out. —Ed. Judi Bartfeld and Daniel R. Meyer. "Are There Really Deadbeat Dads? The Relationship Between Ability to Pay, Enforcement, and Compliance in Normal Child Support Cases." Social Service Review 68, (1994).
Only four percent of non-custodial parents are able to get a reduction in support payments when their earnings drop by over 15 percent. Elaine Sorensen, "A Little Help for Some ‘Deadbeat' Dads," Washington Post (November 15, 1995). p. A25.
90% of fathers with joint custody pay the ordered child support. 79.1% of fathers with visitation rights pay the ordered child support. 44.5% of fathers with no visitation rights pay the ordered child support. Census Bureau report. Series P-23, No. 173.
In 1990, Lockheed employee and divorced father Bobby Sherrill was captured in Kuwait and spent nearly five months as an Iraqi hostage. The night after his release Mr. Sherrill was arrested for not paying $1,425 in child support while a hostage.
In 1980, Texas high school janitor Clarence Brandley was wrongly accused of murder. He spent nearly 10 years in prison, most of it on death row, until his exoneration in January 1990. In 1991, Mr. Brandley sued the state for wrongful imprisonment. The state handed him a bill for nearly $50,000 in child support that Mr. Brandley had failed to pay while in prison. [The Bradley Amendment [42, U.S.C. 666(a)(9)(c)] says that once a child-support obligation has been established, it cannot be retroactively reduced or waived. If, before your comma, abdication, or imprisonment, you failed to hire a lawyer to request a reduction, you will loose your business license, drivers license, car, food stamps, and even be jailed. For some reason, abandonment has only increased. But we measure child-support compliance, not abandonment. — Ed.]
Lenore Weitzman's 1985 book The Divorce Revolution claimed that women and children average a 73% drop in standard of living after divorce; fathers' increase by 42%. It caused a sensation whose effects are still driving social perceptions and policies. It was wrong. Weitzman refused to provide her data to others until, when she left the Murray Center at Stanford University, Richard Peterson of the Social Science Research Council, New York City, reassessed it. There were many data errors, arithmetic errors, and doubtful methodology. Even following Weitzman's methodology, the data showed only a 28% drop for women, and a 7% increase for men after divorce. Eleven years, many false witch hunts, dozens of oppressive measures, and untold suicides later. [Two articles by Peterson, one by Weitzman, American Sociological Review, 1996, Vol. 61:528-36.] When Dr. Sanford Braver of Arizona State University and a team of economists and psychologists assessed their own data using more accurate equivalency tables, accounting for taxes, and other corrections to method, they found no change in standard of living between men and women after divorce. [Sanford L. Braver and Diane O'Connel, Divorced Dads, Tarcher Putman, 1998, ISBN 0-87477-862-X.]
79.6% of custodial mothers receive a support award.
29.9% of custodial fathers receive a support award.
26.9% of non-custodial fathers totally default on support.
46.9% of non-custodial mothers totally default on support. Meyer and Garansky, Technical Analysis Paper No. 42, US, Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Income Security Policy, 1991.


It is from this website...
Child Support Casualties

macklin

Means. that if you give fathers and mothers access to see their children they are more likely to pay for those children.



Only ten percent seem to be willfully not paying while sixty six percent simply cannot afford the amount and the last twenty four percent is undetermined


Men that have regular steady employment pat at a rate of 95%.
Men want to pay and do if they can afford it...


Once as a middle or lower class male, he falls behind one third are so frustrated and unable that they simply don't pay anything... no hope to ever catch up.



THIS IS THE MOST STERLING PIECE OF THE PUZZLE. ONLY FOUR PERCENT OF THE TIME... IF YOU MAKE LESS ARE YOU ALLOWED TO PAY LESS ... ONLY FOUR PERCENT OF THE TIME......

THAT IS A SIN A CRIME .... THAT REALLY IS SLAVERY ...

"We know you are making less but you still have to pay at the same old rate."

This makes me physically ill.... stock market bubble crashed? pay anyway. Real Estate bubble crashed? Pay anyway. The Mill closed down? pay anyway.


Again this is a vivid portrayal that if the male is given equal and fair rights with the mother, joint custody, he pays ninety percent of the time.......
Emerson said, "If you treat people greatly they will show themselves to be great..." He was refering to slaves in the 1800 s but it applies here. He was claiming that if we treat blacks well they will grow and excel... which they have. So treat fathers well with their own children and they will both help raise those children and pay for them..... ISN'T THIS COMMON SENSE.


Oh my ... is this for real. A man risking his life in Iraq is taken hostage after his release by the American hostage system ... child support. I am going to look this up... opressed by your enemy and opressed by your ally... if your a man your attacked from both sides.

I'm going to lose my mind....


Wow... this ... wow... I ... I ... I just can't believe this ... it ... ???

Hey man we know you re just an honest guy right, but looky here, we're gonna put you in jail for no good reason and then ... and then.... we're going to put you in jail again because we put you in jail.

here's how it works... we put you in jail, even though we are wrong ... and then we going to put you in jail for being in jail... that's the american way.

I ... just ... what is going on???


We as a society are more willing to beleive the myths and the lies, then use common sense to understand the truth... no change in standard of living between a man and a woman after a divorce ... again ... the janitor story fills a stereotype that a poor man is more likely to murder than a wealthier man ... yet the wealthy have orchestrated the greatest killing sprees in history through war...

Man are more beholden to women than women are to men.


females more frequently default on their payments, yet the comment is ... DEADBEAT DAD...

Meyer and Garansky, Technical Analysis Paper No. 42, US, Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Income Security Policy, 1991.

macklin

This seems to be a great article that thinks through many angles...

Washington Times article on the Bradley Amendment.

This speaks to a lack of due process, forcing to pay an amount too high without him there to claim his income or prove what he makes ... just a guess in the dark at what he seems to be worth.

macklin

The Seattle Times: Local News: Man killed at court was upset over child support

Man shot in a courthouse because he posed a protest with a 'fake' grenade. For fifteen years he pleaded that child support laws amounted to involuntary servitude and felt that the law was unconstitutional.

He died anyway ... and nothing has changed ... yet.