Are you married?
Have you actually witnessed a marriage other than your parents?
I dont know, I work, I clean. My husband works, cleans and helps with the kids. I don't see the big deal about having your OWN money--I think the views you're sharing are all over the place. You contradict yourself with your own views on how woman should be treated.
No, I do not, but thanks for playing. I've consistently argued on this thread that a) I'm not fond of patriarchal naming traditions and b) I believe men should take responsibility for caring for a shared home, particularly when their wives are working just as many hours as they do, and then coming home to a "second shift" of housework and childrearing.
And I happen to see value in having money that I've earned for myself. No one's saying that couples shouldn't share some areas of financial responsibility, but if one has their own income, they don't have to depend on someone else to support them. They don't have to ask for money from someone else to buy the things they need. They have a higher measure of control over major purchases if they too are contributing money towards them. I fail to see how this is anything but a good thing.
[uote=Dynamic]Women have many benefits for getting married. First of all, men are EXPECTED to work, so if he makes enough money often times women are NOT expected to work. [/quote]
That's a societial expectation, and is not a universal benefit.
Dynamic said:
Should they work, I've never seen a man have a problem with it unless they have children.
I've never claimed that all or most men were against women working, so I fail to see who you think you're arguing this point with.
Dynamic said:
And if he does have a problem it's because he is the major bread winner.
In some cases, perhaps. In many cases, women want to return to work, but are bombarded with messages about how children need their mother's full-time care to thrive, even if cari ng for them full-time is leaving her stresed, dissatisfied and less able to send true quality time with them.
Dynamic said:
When I had my kids I had a better paying job so I actually ended up being the one who worked. And let me tell you, I got enough of an ear full from any woman who knew I was the working partner in the relationship. I did not hear any of this bull**** from a man.
Since I don't know these women, I can't comment on this, but if you don't think many men buy into the idea that women should be primary carer for children, and consequently reduce their working hours, you're mistaken.
Dynamic said:
Secondly, women reap the benefits of stress releif from being with a man. If women were so hard done by in marriages like you claim, then why are they still getting married? Oh I don't know, the biggest benefit is they walk OUT of a marriage with half of a man's ****.
I hear this constantly, and it's an incredibly misogynistic argument. How does shared property acquired during a marriage magicly become "his ****?" Marital property is divided more or less equitably between spouses for a very good reason. When people live together, often one will buy more items than the other, or one will have more receipts in their name, or one will have had a better credit rating allowing them to put more expensive purchases in their names, or one will have the main household account in their namd. Even if both parties contributed financially to the household funds which purchased said items, they'd be entitled to nothing if they had been merely cohabitating.
So what exactly is your rational for deaming all marital property "his ****?"
Dynamic said:
He doesn't walk out of a marriage with anything more than he walked in with.
Wrong. If his partner was wealthier than him, and no pre-nuptial agreement stating otherwise was signed, he benefits, just as a female spouse would.
Dynamic said:
That's a pretty big benefit. The only man who has walked out with more than what he had was Kevin Federline. And there was a big deal made about it because of the fact that he was a man getting someone out of a divorce.
Exactly my point above: marital assets are shared equally regardless of gender. If you have a problem with the fact that men are most often the higher-earning partners, perhaps you might consider that being responsible for the majority of housework and childrearing means women have less time to develop the skills and qualifications necessary to advance up the career ladder.
Dynamic said:
Your views come from more of a selfish stand point, the only thing youre fighting for is your freedom from marriage responsibilities.
No, what I'm "fighting" is the idea that one gender should be stuck with the doing the bulk of the work in a shared home. No more, no less.
Dynamic said:
If you're single you're going to do the house work. If you're in a relationship, you're going to do housework.
And if you're a woman in a realtionship, you'll be doing a great deal more housework than you would do as a single wman, while men's average of hours spent on housework decreases when they enter a relationship?
Dynamic said:
The main reasons why women will do more is because they're all anal about how they want things cleaned. My husband is not allowed to do the dishes for that reason.
That's an opinion, not a fact. And if that was the case, why do single men and women do fairly equitable hours of housework prior to entering a cohabitating relationship? Men don't suddenly lose the ability to clean dishes just because they have a partner. They're doing LESS, and their parents are picking up the slack.
I know plenty of couples where the man is the cook of the house hold.
Also men are definitely starting to get more involved with their children. And a lot of women hear **** from other women, not men.
Dynamic said:
Why are you so angry at men?
Because the evil feminist kabul tell me to be? :roll: I'm not angry at men. I'm angry at anyone receiving shoddy treatment due to their gender, whether within marriage or outside of it. But thank you for assuming that because I criticise inequality, I'm just so damn angry at men.
Dynamic said:
You speak of "most women" when you're only talking for yourself.
I spoke of most women when quoting studies that showed that MOST women did the majority of the housework and childcare in their relationships. I spoke of MOST women when quoting studies that showed that MOST married women suffered from higher stress levels than single women, while most married men were more content with their lot than their single counterparts. I did not claim that my views represented those of MOST women.
Dynamic said:
If most women had such a problem they wouldn't be getting married, so your point there really is washed out when you stated the same thing about men.
Are you denying that this problem, women being expected to do the bulk of housework and childrearing even when they're in employment themselves, exists? One can be unhappy with an aspect of a realtionship, but as opposed to ending the realtionship, work to make it more egalitarian.