Joe the Plumber - post your truths here

Goobieman · 10-16-08, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwind

No, I only care because I don't like people misrepresenting themselves.

Where have you taken issue with Obama misrepresenting homself as anything other than a Socialist?

Summerwind · 10-16-08, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Well Summerwind is a she. Just to clarify.

I've always admitted on this forum, I am not a link hawk. If I was, I could research and find something on the internet, post it to substantiate my claim and then have a back and forth argument as to the validity of my source. I apologize if I don't like to get into the same old tired circular arguments that many people do. And you won't see me asking for links very often either.

I have no problem with you not providing a link, so long as you clarify you are looking at your experience, which you did. My experience, being an accountant since 1976, is entirely different than yours, but I also actually understand books, profits, gross, net, and taxable.

I went to find links to back up my experiential POV; but the only links are from Obama sites; I can't find anything concrete from SBA or any source I'd consider reliable. But from my experience, very few "small" businesses have taxable income of $250K or more. Even ones with solid 2.5M in sales, don't net or have taxable income of $250K. Perhaps it is an issue with the definition of "small". Are we defining by size of workforce? Net or Taxable income? How much territory it covers?

Yep, the problem is in the definition of "small". I don't see a business that's netting its owners $250K or more per individual owner a small business anymore.

Summerwind · 10-16-08, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goobieman

Where have you taken issue with Obama misrepresenting homself as anything other than a Socialist?

I've never heard of him representing himself as a socialist or other label like "not a socialist". So what am I to take issue with? That he has a plan, he has set it forth, and when he was uncomfortably questioned he stuck to his plan without flinching? Sorry, I don't see the problem. Now, whether I agree with his plan is another issue and not the topic of this thread.

jallman · 10-16-08, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Umm, alot of small businesses make over $250,000 in profit. I worked with pretty much nothing but small businesses and had access to their books. My step father is President of a small insurance agency and they have profits well over $250,000. Maybe little Ma&Pop coffee shops aren't making alot of money, but alot of small businesses make over $250,000.

For sure. The business I worked for in Alaska had about 6 people working when we were fully staffed and our profits were well over 3-4 million a year.

sazerac · 10-16-08, 12:51 PM

Doctors make more than $250,000 a year after deductions. They are a better example than a plumber.

Doctors are middle class.

Summerwind · 10-16-08, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sazerac

Doctors make more than $250,000 a year after deductions. They are a better example than a plumber.

Doctors are middle class.

Depends on the doctor. Some are in fact middle class by the time the pay for staff and malpractice insurance and hospital fees and so on. But those that make over $250K taxable income per year are not middle class anymore.

Felicity · 10-16-08, 01:03 PM

$250,000 in some parts of the country is not "middle class" --in others it is barely middle class. Depends on the cost of living in that particular area.

Summerwind · 10-16-08, 01:26 PM

Here y'all go, a reliable source with reliable links too.

Quote:

Checking facts: Will Obama raise small biz taxes? - Oct. 16, 2008
McCain has entrepreneurs spooked about tax hikes, but fewer than 2% of small business owners would pay more under Obama's plan.<snip>

First, it relies on a broad definition of what counts as a small business, including everyone who files a Schedule C, E and F.

But most people who file those forms don't run a business for a living: Those forms are also used to report income from freelance and consulting work, real-estate rentals, and most other non-salary sources. <snip>

Second, even using the broad definition of small business that McCain likes, very few owners would see their own taxes rise.

<snip>Few owners are that lucky in business. In a member survey conducted late last year, the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) found that only 14% of respondents said they had $200,000 or more in annual income.

As Tax Policy Center fellow Len Berman recently told Fortune Small Business: "Most owners of small businesses have small incomes."<snip>

Third, even if you're one of the rare business owners making enough money to be affected by Obama's proposed tax increases, you still won't see a big hike in your tax bill.

Its a very long, in depth article. Totally worth the read if you want to actually be informed about Obama's plan rather than having talking points drilled into your heads.

rivrrat · 10-16-08, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwind

Since I didn't and don't suppose McCain wouldn't bring him up, nor have I indicated any such thing. Ask a question that relates to what I've said and I'll consider answering.

Your perceptions don't change the facts that $250K isn't middleclass, blue collar, or working class. It just isn't. A person may own a business that does provides working class persons to its customers, but anyone in that business making $250K or more is no longer in that realm.

The 250k is the amount for a FAMILy. So, you trying to tell me that people who make 125k a year don't work? So they're not "working class"?

That number isn't very high depending on where you happen to live. Back home in WV, if I was making 125k, I'd be ****ing rich. Here in San Diego? Hardly.

Summerwind · 10-16-08, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat

The 250k is the amount for a FAMILy. So, you trying to tell me that people who make 125k a year don't work? So they're not "working class"?

That number isn't very high depending on where you happen to live. Back home in WV, if I was making 125k, I'd be ****ing rich. Here in San Diego? Hardly.

Unfortunately for y'all the line has to be drawn somewhere, he chose a statistical location where only a certain % in USA as a whole are over that $#. No matter where, it is difficult to draw that line with such a diverse economic country.

10-16-08, 12:51 PM	#75
sazerac Adventurer/Bon Vivant Join Date: Sep 2008 Last Seen: Today 06:05 PM Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,029 Thanks: 1,569 Thanked 602 Times in 393 Posts Lean: Moderate Gender:	Re: Joe the Plumber - post your truths here Doctors make more than $250,000 a year after deductions. They are a better example than a plumber. Doctors are middle class.

10-16-08, 01:03 PM	#77
Felicity Banned Join Date: Sep 2005 Last Seen: 10-06-09 02:03 PM Posts: 11,946 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,722 Times in 1,322 Posts Total Awards: 2	Re: Joe the Plumber - post your truths here $250,000 in some parts of the country is not "middle class" --in others it is barely middle class. Depends on the cost of living in that particular area.

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