Goobieman

That doesnt make any of it OK...

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sazerac

Exactly! Al Gore's "two Americas."

Lerxst

If you're making around $35K a year then your 401K can't be that big unless you drive an 81 Honda and live on Ramen noodles. How big it is is very relevant because it would matter in terms of how much taxable profit you would eventually generate. Which comes to my point about the majority of Americans not being affected.


No, that's okay. I'm just trying to have someone explain how Obama's tax plan would negatively affect the average U.S. earner or their 401K/retirement.

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Lerxst

Well I suppose my point then is that the good ole' U.S. has survived throughout and even thrived under these "socialist" programs. Doom and gloom talk without a clear explanation of how our economic collapse will come about under Obama's plan is just so much partisan rhetoric.

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Goobieman

As has been noted elsewhere, Obama's tax plan also includes letting the 2001/2003 tax cuts expire.
This will affect everyone, especially the 'working poor' with kids.

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Artificially supporting the weak, slow, sick and stupid strains already limited resources and weakens the species as a whole.
-Goobieman

Goobieman

I dont believe the argument is that it will cuase a collapse, the argument is that class warfare is wrong.

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Artificially supporting the weak, slow, sick and stupid strains already limited resources and weakens the species as a whole.
-Goobieman

Lerxst

Okay I get this part. So let me expound upon this just a bit. Is class warfare an ideal or is it an actual act with consequences? Under Obama's plan, what will this class warfare mean to the average American bottom line?

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Lerxst

But will Obama's tax cuts/plan actually raise the taxes of the working poor after the old cuts expire and result in lost spendable income?

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Goobieman

You said yourself -- its been going on for some time.

Telling the have nots that, if elected, you will take money from haves and give it to them is a great way to get the have nots to vote for you.

And, as you have noted, there are a lot of have-nots. Thus, those that make this promise are likely to get elected.

And so, the federal tax/spend system becomes a means for people to get elected -- that is, a way for people to gain and retain personal power and personal wealth.

Those are the consequences.

Not everything has to do with the bottom line.

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Artificially supporting the weak, slow, sick and stupid strains already limited resources and weakens the species as a whole.
-Goobieman

Lerxst

Absolutely.

Yes, but making promises or saying things, even distorted things, to capture votes from a group of people is a very age old practice. It's called pandering. Both sides do it.

And politicians on both sides have done it. Appropriations are a key example. Not saying it's right by any means. But this is the way our system is set up to run. McCain panders, just like Obama. To different crowds. The off-shore oil issue a key example.
But that is not necessarily class warfare. That is the age old practice of "read my lips" politics. This isn't new, and Obama isn't a class warfare operative. He's presenting a plan that adjusts the tax situation, within the already commonly accepted tax mechanism. No doubt he is a tax and spend liberal. But "class warfare?"

In an argument about taxes, the economy, and 401K's it does.

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