Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/god?

128shot · 09-09-05, 06:44 PM

I never understood this, why is there such a burning desire for athiests to tell me "there is no good" and all that yak? why?

y not peace? · 09-09-05, 08:02 PM

im not athiest but i know plenty of them. Most are friends. But anyways, they say "there is no good" because they look at the history of all relgions and see no good in them. They also simply say that they dont need religion in their lives.

Kelzie · 09-09-05, 08:06 PM

I'm an agnostic, and I would say one of the reasons is that people use religion in argument like it's fact, when it's not. Example:

"Abortion's wrong cause God says it is"

"Gay people are going to hell cause God says they are."

"Pre-marital sex means you're a slut because God says so."

It's infuriating. That's usually when I whip out the "there's no proof for God" card.

KevinWan · 09-09-05, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzie

I'm an agnostic, and I would say one of the reasons is that people use religion in argument like it's fact, when it's not. Example:

"Abortion's wrong cause God says it is"

"Gay people are going to hell cause God says they are."

"Pre-marital sex means you're a slut because God says so."

It's infuriating. That's usually when I whip out the "there's no proof for God" card.

...There may be no proof for God, but is there significant proof that there is no God?? I think that you, as an "agnostic," would be more likely to understand the meaning of God in an argument. God is often just a refection of moral and ethic code, especially on issues of abortion, gay marriage, etc. "Its just out right wrong," is often the argument people are trying to make when they use God as proof. There is proof that Western civilization despises civil murder, abortion, stealing etc. Abiding by the moral sense of our civilization is the point of God in such arguments.

Alex · 09-09-05, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinWan

...There may be no proof for God, but is there significant proof that there is no God?? I think that you, as an "agnostic," would be more likely to understand the meaning of God in an argument. God is often just a refection of moral and ethic code, especially on issues of abortion, gay marriage, etc. "Its just out right wrong," is often the argument people are trying to make when they use God as proof. There is proof that Western civilization despises civil murder, abortion, stealing etc. Abiding by the moral sense of our civilization is the point of God in such arguments.

Of course it cannot be proven that something does not exist. The burden falls on people to prove that it does. That is not possible with gods.

Kelzie · 09-09-05, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinWan

...There may be no proof for God, but is there significant proof that there is no God?? I think that you, as an "agnostic," would be more likely to understand the meaning of God in an argument. God is often just a refection of moral and ethic code, especially on issues of abortion, gay marriage, etc. "Its just out right wrong," is often the argument people are trying to make when they use God as proof. There is proof that Western civilization despises civil murder, abortion, stealing etc. Abiding by the moral sense of our civilization is the point of God in such arguments.

"Something is bad because I think so" is not a valid argument. Which is basically what people are doing when they bring God into a debate. This is not proof, it is an opinion, something you should form your argument around, but then back it up with facts.

y not peace? · 09-10-05, 01:51 AM

your forgeting the Jesus aspect...lol....HE FORGAVE OUR SINS.

its not like u cant be gay and be christian.....

and teh abortion issue...why cant you have an adoption.

Kelzie · 09-10-05, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y not peace?

your forgeting the Jesus aspect...lol....HE FORGAVE OUR SINS.

its not like u cant be gay and be christian.....

and teh abortion issue...why cant you have an adoption.

According to you. According to me, HE WAS A HUMAN BEING. He died just like the rest of us will.

Not according to the bible you can't. Oh no wait, I'm sorry. You can be gay, you just can't act on it. Very big hearted of your God, I have to say. Making somebody love someone of the same sex, and then condemning them to burn in hell if they act on in.

Knock yourself out. Just don't tell me or other women what to do. Some of us don't want to go through a pregnancy for a bunch of cells.

leejosepho · 09-10-05, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y not peace?

im not athiest but i know plenty of them. Most are friends. But anyways, they say "there is no good" because they look at the history of all relgions and see no good in them ...

My own response to that is usually to agree with the “history of religions” part, and to then point out that “religions” come merely from men, and not from “God”.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzie

I'm an agnostic, and I would say one of the reasons is that people use religion in argument like it's fact, when it's not. Example:

"Abortion's wrong cause God says it is"

"Gay people are going to hell cause God says they are."

"Pre-marital sex means you're a slut because God says so."

It's infuriating. That's usually when I whip out the "there's no proof for God" card.

Abortion and deviant sex are wrong because “God” (at least indirectly) says so, and my inability to prove His existence does not alter those facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex

Of course it cannot be proven that something does not exist. The burden falls on people to prove that it does ...

Whoa! Why is that? To me, that is quite illogical and void of intellectual honesty. If it cannot be proven that something does *not* exist, then how could it be proven (or how could someone sanely/rightly/fairly demand it be proven) something does?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzie

"Something is bad because I think so" is not a valid argument ...

Agreed ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzie

Which is basically what people are doing when they bring God into a debate.

To me, that would be commendable, as they are referencing a higher authority to decide the matter in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzie

This is not proof, it is an opinion ...

Actually, it is neither. Rather, it is a simple report.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelzie

... something you should form your argument around, but then back it up with facts.

With opinion and even “God” aside, what facts would be required to convince people that abortion and deviant sex are wrong?

Or, if preferred: What facts might anyone have to convince others otherwise?

Kelzie · 09-10-05, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejosepho

Abortion and deviant sex are wrong because “God” (at least indirectly) says so, and my inability to prove His existence does not alter those facts.

Actually it does. If you can not prove something, it is not a fact. It is your opinion that God exists. Therefore, any rules that you follow from this God are based on your opinion that he exists, and as such, are not facts.

Quote:

To me, that would be commendable, as they are referencing a higher authority to decide the matter in the first place.

See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejosepho

With opinion and even “God” aside, what facts would be required to convince people that abortion and deviant sex are wrong?

Or, if preferred: What facts might anyone have to convince others otherwise?

Abortion: I would need it to be proven that fetus can live outside the body. Once that happens, I will agree that abortion is wrong.

Deviant sexual behavior: I assume you are talking about homosexuality here. As long as it is an act between two consenting adults that does no damage to each other, I have no problem with it.