independent_thinker2002

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DarkWizard12

Here is my arguement: Cool it.

Sarah palin has been in the national spotlight for...uhh...how long? A couple of days? Even Obama has had 4 years now to explain his platform and thoughts and actions. All these questions on Palin are little different than "how often do you beat your wife(or...husband in this case)?". You think that any rationally-cruel person would give her at least a week to come out and explain her actions. With the quality of news that gets filtered through the campaigns and all, I bet that the only people in the JM camp that knows we are discussing this is their spokesperson, sheesh, give her some time.

I really have to feel with Palin, I know what its like being the new-kid on the block, or for her, the spotlight.

RightinNYC

I'm not gullible, just an admin. She's legit.

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RightinNYC

Did that email come with any links to support its 60 or 70 unsourced claims?

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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Alaskan

Anne Kilkenny is being overly modest at the least to style herself as "just a housewife". She is a very effective Democratic operative in local partisan politics. She is quite sane however, and she does show up at almost every council meeting and assembly meeting. She's also a super voter, and has voted in every election, so she takes her obligations as a citizen quite seriously.

John Stein is also a registered Democrat, and was quite active as well. Even though the Wasilla mayor is officially nonpartisan, the race back then between John Stein (at that point a three term mayor) and Sarah Palin was clearly partisan.

The Republican won. The Democrats didn't like the outcome. Neither did the senior city staff, as they were mostly registered Democrats, and had strongly supported John as the Democratic candidate (it didn't hurt that he had hired them all as well).

Sarah wasn't too keen about their support for her opponent, and fired some of them, citing their lack of support for her administration, likely based on their political activities (remember there is no Hatch Act in local politics).

All in all, pretty typical small town politics. If you follow the articles mentioned, you'll find that the NYT and Time articles are a bit coy about their sources. Anne and John and possibly a few other unhappy Democrats are the source.

These complaints about Sarah's actions as mayor have been anti-Sarah Democratic talking points since that long-ago election, and Anne has done a very good job of keeping them alive over the years. She is rather good at getting attention from the news media. She is smart, articulate, and has very striking silver hair, which may appeal to the TV media. (Bet I get flamed for that last, but she really is photogenic. In my defense, I pay more attention to the smart and articulate part).

For deeply felt ideological reasons, Anne the Democrat has never liked--in a political sense; she's very well-mannered--Sarah the Republican. Anne didn't like Sarah before she was the mayor. Anne campaigned for John against Sarah. Anne didn't like Sarah as mayor. Anne doesn't like Sarah as Governor, and Anne won't like Sarah if she becomes VP. They are political enemies, because they are in opposing political parties. Anne will continue to point out, in every forum, the flaws she sees in Sarah, primarily that Sarah is a Republican!

As for me, I'm registered Undeclared. I mostly lean toward Republican views, but deal with each issue on its merits, which means I'm more Libertarian on some issues, and more Liberal on others. Library censorship is an issue I am vehemently opposed to. (I don't think that's a prerogative of liberals; it rots the fabric of society. Besides, many of my ancestors were librarians).

If you read my posts carefully, without preconceived perceptual filters, you'll see that I hope and expect others to do likewise. With respect to the old censorship allegation, I assert from my direct experience that it didn't happen, and I invite you to review the books in the Wasilla Library catalog to judge for yourself. It doesn't get any more objective than that.

If you are unable or unwilling to look for yourself, then pick up to 10 titles that you think are likely censorship candidates, and I'll tell you if they are in the Wasilla Library (or the Mat-Su Library system, of which Wasilla Library is a member). As an aside, inter-library loan makes any attempt to cull books from a single library rather pointless.

As for the laughable suggestion that I'm somehow a Republican plant from Boca Raton, I dare you to ask me about local Wasilla trivia. That ought to weed out any impostor rather quickly. Once I stop laughing, of course.

Sarah has done some things I don't like, especially firing Walt. That is coming back to haunt her, and it's not going away any time soon. Today, Frank Bailey decided he's not going to cooperate with Steve Branchflower, which is a dumb move. There are some significant skeletons in that closet.

I do think overall that Sarah will make a good VP. I'm not at all convinced that being VP will be good for Sarah. I recognize the advancement for women that will result from Sarah in the VP slot, but I think about Sarah the person. She and her family were back in church (I may really regret revealing this, but yes, I'm also a member of Wasilla Bible Church) a couple of weeks ago for a dedication service for Trig. At the time, I remember thinking that if Troopergate really blew up, and Sarah stepped down as Governor, that she and Todd and the family would have more chances to be in church, and that would be good. She does attend other churches as she can, in Juneau and elsewhere, but if she's elected VP it will get harder.

I think that's the real cost of higher offices; it's hard to stay connected with your roots. I doubt Sarah will be doing much more fishing, and I doubt Todd will be running any more Iron Dogs. And that church service was probably the last time they could sit in some folding chairs a few rows away from me, and just be the Palin family, and not be the center of attention, but rather just members of the church with an infant to dedicate. No Secret Service, no state troopers (other than one singing on stage), no fuss and bother. When the rush fades, they'll miss that. And that's why we pray for elected leaders.

Alaskan

I guess you can twist the meaning into that if you are determined to. The truth is much simpler. Libraries have budgets. They can only buy so many books. Someone has to decide what books to buy, and what to sell. I think that person should be the librarian, not a political ideologue from either side of the spectrum. Hence my comment about a "librarian's judgment".

I go to the Library book sales, because I'm a book junkie. I haven't noticed any purging of books favoring one political or religious viewpoint over another at any of the sales since before Sarah was mayor until past the end of her terms.

Finally, the librarian back then wasn't fired. Mary Ellen stayed on for several more years. She and Sarah never got along well, and eventually Mary Ellen moved on to another job. I don't know if the friction with Sarah was a reason, or perhaps the new library had a better salary and a bigger book budget. The librarian after her didn't censor any books either.

In other posts, I've directed you to the librarian's blog, the external (definitely not city controlled) Friends of the Library, and the collection itself. Rather than your speculative comments about SP's "religiosity" (whatever that means), please go look for yourself and see if you can find any evidence to support this old politically motivated complaint.

Then tell me how SP's Christian faith will impact her performance as VP? As I recall, all Presidents and VPs have proclaimed a Christian faith of one type or another. If you just don't like the idea of a Christian as VP (or President), then you should say so directly rather than by snarky comments about "religiosity", and defend your preference for an atheist, deist, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Jew, Taoist, Shinto, Wiccan, or whatever creed. And see if you can convince enough other Americans to agree with you in November. They won't be Democrats or Republicans, though.

independent_thinker2002

I appreciate having you sharing your opinion here. Keep it up.

I'm not sure why you quoted my post. I realize what Anne was doing, she was minimizing her stature. It's okay for her to do that, but if a man does it, he's a chauvenist or misogynist.

I never made any claims about the book banning issue. I doubt that an effective leader would really ask useless hypothetical questions about censorship. I'm guessing that Palin's time is valuable to her.

She also has to consider how things sound to people. Would it be wise to call Tehran and ask, "Hey, what if we nuked you? Hypothetically speaking, of course."

Asking a librarian hypotheticals about censoring books is just daft. Librarians are the most opposed to book bannings. It's like asking an African-American "Hey, what if we bring back segregation? Hypothetically, of course."

What can you tell us about your church? Do you practice "prayer speak"? Do you lay hands on people? I've heard these things but have no idea if they are true. I've been to churches where this does happen.

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Alaskan

Your post was a convenient size to quote, and made more sense than the other one. I agree with you about the double standard on labels, but white males might as well get used to it; it isn't going to change in a PC world.

There are lots of crazy comments being made about Wasilla Bible Church (WBC) from people determined to fit it into some predefined stereotype of "Christian Crazies". Since I'm a member, obviously it suits me, so I won't claim any neutral POV here.

I like to style myself as a "logical Christian", most strongly influenced by C.S. Lewis and Madeleine L'Engle. Intellectual honesty is important to me. Like Jack Lewis, I didn't intend to become a Christian, but I was surprised by joy. In my case, it didn't involve a woman named Joy. I had been an American Buddhist sliding slowly into existentialism when I had my nose rubbed in the reality of Jesus' impact on human history and on people around me now, culminating in His impact on me. But this is trending off-topic for the current discussion.

WBC is simultaneously a conservative Christian Church in thought, while being a loving Christian community in actions. That means that you are free to worship as you please, within the bounds of not unduly distracting your neighbors (see Romans 14). The motto of the church is "We don't row this boat", and we have a scale model of a fully rigged schooner floating around the church somewhere. The core commitments and statement of faith are posted on the church website. Sermons in audio and transcripts for the past few years are available too.

That's kinda intellectual. Here's what it feels like. We meet in a large metal building that someday will be a basketball court. We put out folding chairs, usually facing a small stage, but sometimes in a circle around a plain wooden cross (for communion in the round).

The first part of the service is singing. We have several groups that take turns from week to week. Music ranges from bluegrass to rock to jazz to old hymns to classical. Instruments include guitars, piano, organ, drum set, dulcimer, banjo, string bass, violin, clarinets, flute, mandolin, violin, trumpet, kazoo, mouth harp, harmonica, and of course the human voice.

It is NOT a performance, it is shared worship. We rarely applaud, except sometimes for visitors. We are still working on the clapping together for some songs, but the lead pastor is rhythm challenged. There are three projector screens so you can see the words from any direction. If you want to raise your hand or hands during the worship part of the service, go for it. Depending on the mood, I guess maybe 10 to 20% do, but it's not a required or discouraged thing. I guess people could be speaking in tongues if they want to, but that's not a focus of worship or a public thing. It would be hard to tell over the singing anyway, because we're usually pretty loud.

We don't fool around with hymnals, and everybody brings their own Bible(s). There are some loaners out in the lobby if you need one.

Speaking of Bibles, there are a lot of them. After the singing worship, we spend about 20 to 30 minutes of the roughly one hour "service" in teaching. When one of the pastors preaches, almost everyone grabs their Bible to check out his teaching. Many people have notebooks, and take notes. Sometimes things get interactive, though as the congregation has grown, that's harder to do during the service, so people discuss issues afterward.

If this sounds informal, it is. We're not big on ritual. We do observe the ritual Christ commanded. We have communion at least on the first Sunday of every month, which means if the reporters show up again this Sunday, they will be invited to participate. The usual introduction to communion is "if you believe Christ died for you, join right in. If you aren't sure about this whole Christian thing, feel free to just watch. It's up to you." We rarely do "altar calls", but we do have a couple of pastors or elders hanging out near the front after church if anybody needs one.

There is no dress code, other than some semblance of modesty, and that is subject to personal interpretation and temperature. Mostly we're a blue jeans church, though there are some suits and ties. Some women cover their heads, some don't. The culturally Russian people tend to have embroidered shirts for the men, and long dresses and little caps for the women. I guess there is some sort of peer pressure among the women of the church to not be too blatant. It's worship and learning rather than a fashion show. It's very Alaskan.

People cover the spectrum. It's predominately white, with a significant number of Alaskan Natives, a few blacks, and lots of other categories. The most common languages are English, Russian, Spanish, and Yupik. Some people are on welfare, some are millionaires. Some are "housewives", some are legislators and CEOs. Most are middle class families raising their kids. Over the summer, some of us worked on some Habitat for Humanity houses; one was for a divorced mother with kids who is a church member.

There are some conservative customs. All of the elders and pastors are men. I've had some discussions with several of the elders and pastors about whether this should be a strict rule or not, as I feel women can and should serve in such roles. We shall see. So far, the women of the church seem to have plenty of say in how we do things, and frequently lead music worship. And they mostly control all the youth teaching.

We do "lay hands" on people sometimes; usually when they are embarking on something challenging. This is usually done by a pastor and some elders, though that's not a strict rule. Sometimes family members get in the act too. That's just formal enough to accomplish the purpose. I don't know what "prayer speak" is, unless you mean "speaking in tongues" or glossolalia? If we do that, I guess we do it privately. The Bible says that if you want to do that publicly, there has to be an interpreter, otherwise it isn't useful. We do teach about gifts of the Spirit sometimes, but tongues aren’t emphasized. Nor is spoken prophecy in church. We tend to focus on gifts like mercy, and service, and discernment, and wisdom, and administration. It's up to God whatever gifts people discover and use. Our focus is on helping people use the talents they have for the benefit of all.

That reminds me; most of the interactive sort of stuff including spiritual gifts occurs in small home groups. People are encouraged to form groups of 10 to 12 people (usually couples) and meet in homes. There usually is some sort of study material, but that varies widely depending on the nature of the group. I led one of these groups for several years, and we ranged all over the Bible. I'm not currently involved in a group, but probably will be again. We didn't do "tongues" or anything else showy in my small group either, but it's likely that some groups might do it sometimes.

I don't have a clue about the political makeup of the church, except that there are Republicans, Democrats, and others there. Your political affiliation is just not relevant to worship. When Todd and Sarah came a few weeks back, it was to worship and have a dedication ceremony for Trig. They were not the focus of attention, except during a brief prayer at the start of the service. After that, they sat back down, sang along in worship, listened to the guest speaker, and left. I didn't notice anybody crowding around them, except for the usual admiring circle of women checking out the new baby.

I guess we're a pretty typical non-denominational church centered on the Bible, without a lot of ritual, and very pragmatic. We do believe in an infinite, personal God, and we believe we each have a personal relationship with Him. We don't blindly follow any person or creed; we study, think about it, question it if we don't get it, and do our best to live up to our ideals.

I hope that gives you a taste of WBC. Feel free to listen to or read the sermons online. If you want the whole experience (sorta), you can request a CD of the entire service, music and all, for $2 (plus whatever it costs to mail it, I guess). Or if you happen to be in Wasilla, drop on in. Services are at 9:30 and 11:15. Come as you are.

DarkWizard12

*humrph* Thats 'Dark Wizard' to you. :P

missypea

ABC News has exclusively learned that Alaska Senator Hollis French will announce today that he is moving up the release date of his investigation into whether Gov. Sarah Palin abused her office to get the Alaska public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, fired. The results of the investigation were originally scheduled for release Oct. 31 but will now come almost three weeks earlier, according to sources.

ABC News: Investigation into Palin Now on Fast Track


I believe you are correct. It's coming back to haunt her.

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