Kandahar

I know, that's the point. Universal health care would be good for businesses, good for workers, good for public health, and good for the economy as a whole.

Businesses don't want to employ burnt-out workers who are only there for the health care benefits, anymore than those workers like being there.

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new coup for you

This is the insanity of the American libertarian: they're hysterical over individuals abusing foodstamps or whatever but Wal-Mart systematically abusing Medicare and Medicaid is "the market".

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And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

talloulou

I'd like to see all insurance plans no longer tied to employers. If nobody purchased insurance via their employer's plans then individuals would have a fair shot at buying health insurance at fair and reasonable prices, which they do not at this time.

So I'm personally for nixing all these "huge group plans" offered through employers. People shouldn't have to consider "health insurance" when they're considering switching jobs. I've known folks who have had to actually stay with an employer they wanted to leave just so they could keep insurance they wouldn't be able to buy personally due to "pre-existing" conditions. Cutting the employer out of the loop entirely would end much of this rot.

Kandahar

I definitely agree. Although I favor universal health care and (I think) you don't, we agree on the necessity to cut employers out of the loop. Even if we don't go universal, this would be one of the most important improvements we could make to the system. In fact, I can envision a pretty good health care system that isn't universal or government-run, if we would just stick to ideas like this:

1. Cut employers out of the loop. The problem is that that money never gets taxed. Employers are allowed to deduct their employees' health care benefits as a payroll expense...but employees don't have to count it as part of their income. As a result, it's attractive to both. We should end this loophole to dissuade employers from providing it in the first place.

2. We should make it illegal for health insurance companies to discriminate on the basis of preexisting conditions, unless they can be specifically traced to heavy smoking, alcoholism, or drug abuse.

That would eliminate most of the major economic inefficiencies that are currently in the system. Not as good as a universal system IMO, but still much better than what we have now.

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post

Our right wing dominated US politics serves up results ...ruin, everywhere you look:

The French lived under four years of Nazi, fascist rule. They completely rejected it and "the left" is alive and well in France. We in the US have lived under Nazi fascist rule in a more subtle form, since at least 1934, and it shows no sign of abating. The result is that there is "no left" in the US. We have only "right of center" politics...still growing wealth inequity, huge national debt. eroding currency valuation, and standard of living, but....four of the 15 richest Americans are:

Livin' in a fascist, far right land....Amerika, the only country where a Hitler sycophant like John McCloy could become "a key advisor to nine US presidents and singlehandedly transfer victory in WWII to the Reich's industrialists and their families:

Kandahar

How very insightful and how very relevant to the topic of this thread. Idiot.

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post

Who are you calling an "idiot"? You omitted the directly relevant parts of my post....the listing of four Walton family members....(W-a-l-t-o-n of W-a-l-Mart) in the top 15 of the Forbes 400 richest, and the FACT that there is "no left" in the US....only a right of center, political dominance that has held off any chance of a sane and fiscally sound healthcare distribtution arrangement. Since there has been only one political party in the US, with two right wings, assclowns like the Frist family could use their profits from taking their HCA healthcare/health insurance conglomerate public, and then private again, to install the family's #2 son in the US senate where he became majority leaders. This permitted this one, profit hungry, right wing family, to block any progressive US healthcare reform, for years. I documented the fact that nine US presidents of both right wings of the one major US party, counted as a close friend and key advisor, Nazi sycophant and kingpin re-enabler, John J. McCloy. These presidents, via McCloy, saw to it that all of the key Nazi industrialists were put back in business, with their wallets intact.

Former president George HW Bush, counts as his "best friend" and in the '80's" blind trust investment advisor, WIll S. Farish III. One of Farish's grandfathers, president of Standard Oil, NJ, was forced to admit in 1942 by Asst. US Atty Thurman Arnold, that he traded with, partnered with, and paid millions to IG Farben, after war with Germany was declared. Farish's company gave Farben permission and the manufacturing expertise, as well as stockpiles of the Tetra-Ethyl-Lead fuel octane boosting additive itself, which enabled the Nazi Luftwaffe to bomb Britain:
Here is Will S. Farish III's maternal grandfather, Gen. Robert E. Wood:
Since both Will S. Farish III's grandfather and father died suddenly within months of each other in 1942-43, the closest male relative the four years old Farish had in his life was the ultra right, Robert E. Wood.

It certainly fits that Farish III's best friend would be Prescott Bush's son, and that his son, GW Bush, would appoint Farish III to be his ambassador to the UK.

The ultra right in the US, controls the politics, because "the oppostion" is the right of center, right wing faction of the "one party". This arrangement certainly explains why.....even if government administration of US medical care cost only one third the present cost, and reached everyone with timely and competent care, proposals to implement such change would be blocked.
We vote and we don't even know who are political opposition is, because we have been trained not to look, or to oppose it....but it is ultra right wing, the opposite of "the left", aka far right, fascism.....

1069

Be that as it may, you should go start another thread about it elsewhere.
This thread is about something entirely unrelated.

CaptainCourtesy

Moderator's Warning:

Kandahar, personal attacks are not necessary; please cease or you will receive further consequences. And post, please stay on topic.

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talloulou

Pre-existing conditions are a HUGE problem. Originally the intent behind them seemed benign enough. They were meant to protect insurance companies from folks who rattled along with never paying for any type of health insurance until after something went wrong. The idea was to get healthy people paying for their insurance and punish those who felt they could get away with forgoing insurance till said insurance was actually needed.

But now pre-existing conditions have become a freaking nightmare where people are held prisoners at a particular job because they know if they left the job they will NEVER get insurance at a reasonable price again. Pre-existing conditions now commonly punish folks who HAVE been paying for insurance all along and that should be flat out illegal as far as I'm concerned.

I'd like to see all insurance plans bought personally by individuals. Your job should have NOTHING to do with your health insurance, your ability to buy it, your ability to keep it, your ability to change it.

I'd also like to see some regulation where a person CANNOT be denied benefits on the basis of pre-existing conditions as long as they have been insured for say the past 2-5 years or something. In other words if you have cancer, diabetes, HIV, or whatever you should still be able to switch to a new insurance company as long as you have proof of having had coverage all along for a set amount of years.

Dumping also needs to be outlawed. Insurance companies now routinely dump HIV patients and a whole host of others who ultimately end up on medicaid. They should not be allowed to dump the folks that cost them money, even if those people are costing them lots of money.

For the record I'm not completely opposed to universal health care. I'm apprehensive about our government's ability to handle universal heath care but I'm not completely opposed. I wouldn't mind a combination system where private hospitals still remained and folks with money could simply pay in order to not have to wait so freaking long for the "free care."