Is someone who did not show up to vote 394 times qualified to be president?

obvious Child · 07-26-08, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfuh

The military of course being the greatest irony of those here that are typically screaming their heads off on these matters and who make the fallacious argument that liberal = socialist = communist = stalin thus a liberal is stalin.

It is. I love how ardent anti-Socialists have no problem spending billions on a socialized military but take offense to spending tiny amounts on socialized education. Huh. We're Americans. We blow stuff up, but don't ask us to educate or build.

Quote:

Without even first doing the homework to ask what is socialism or communism or liberalism.

Pretty much. The highway system was a giant socialized program. The very backbone of the American Car Culture was based in Socialism. But history is often lost on those who refuse to see the world in more then two shades.

That said, Socialism is hardly something a country should implement more then absolutely necessary.

Quote:

On the topic however, I think what is more important is not whether or not McCain missed 63% of the votes he was supposed to participate in, but rather that he seems to have forgotten how he voted on 80% of what he voted on in particular of issues that he claims are most important to him. He didn't even bother to vote on Jim Webb's GI bill and was a huge obstruction to that bill. But won't stop him taking credit for it.

Could be worse. You could have both candidates who didn't give a **** about the troops.

obvious Child · 07-26-08, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Maybe I don't. So, my mind is open. Convince me that Communism is good for America.

Well, it's kind of hard when you may not know what Communism actually is. Or how you get there.

bhkad · 07-26-08, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

Or Communism for that matter.

Generally those who talk about the evils of Communism without being first prompted to do so are those who are ignorant of the ideology.

If Socialism is always so horrible, why do we have socialized roads? Socialized police? Socialized firefighters? A socialized military?

You are formally requested to educate me on how and why Socialism is good.

obvious Child · 07-26-08, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

You are formally requested to educate me on how and why Socialism is good.

You like having police and firefighters right? You like not having to bribe them to do what you want right? How about roads? Do you enjoy having to pay a toll on every road you drive on? How about your beloved military? Or would you rather prefer it entirely like blackwater/Executive Outcomes/Triple Canopy?

What DO you know about Socialism?

jfuh · 07-26-08, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Maybe I don't. So, my mind is open. Convince me that Communism is good for America.

Why would I need to do that? That's not my position, I'm not saying that it is good for America hence there is no burden of proof on me for it.
In reverse however, your fallacious argument of Obama=liberal=socialist=communist=Stalin is utterly nonsense and demonstrates a clear misunderstanding of what any of those terms mean.
I suggest that you actually do your homework on it in a non-bias way before you come on here rambling talking points.
This is a debate site, you yourself should be educated enough in what you argue for or against. It's not mine nor anyone elses job to do so.
You don't have to, but it would certainly make your arguments more valid and constructive rather than silly stereotypes and generalizations.

danarhea · 07-27-08, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders

Wow - way to fail to mention that Obama is third on that list

Votes: 277 votes missed (44.3%), 348 votes cast

In case you haven't noticed, these men are currently running for President. The results you posted are from the 110th Congress, let's see what the 109th turns up for McCain

Votes: 58 votes missed (9.0%), 587 votes cast

Link

File this one under U for useless metrics

I'm not voting for Obummer either.

danarhea · 07-27-08, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

And yet the people of Arizona think well enough of his performance to keep returning him to Washington.

You miss a few votes when you are visiting war zones trying to help determine the best way to win...to resist the spread of Islamism.

Obama served 143 days in the Senate before declaring for President. And what did he do in those 143 days? Nothing of much note EXCEPT to call on us to leave Iraq in defeat.

McCain has been named one of Time magazine's "25 Most Influential People in America".[106]

Obama is a Socialist.

Instead of pushing his country toward Communism like Obama, McCain has spent his life fighting against Communism.

People in Arizona are sick of McCain. In 2007, Janet Napolitano, who is the current Governor of Arizona, lead him 47-36% for the 2010 Senate Race, and it has gotten worse for McCain since then. Napolitano has already formed a PAC dedicated to her election, and is making her move. Here is more about her. She is extremely popular, especially among Republican women. In her last gubernatorial election, she carried every single district over her opponent, making it the most lopsided gubernatorial election in the history of Arizona. If McCain is not elected president, which he won't be, he is toast in 2 more years. None of your hate speech is going to change what is about to happen. The Neocons will soon be in the garbage can.

bhkad · 07-27-08, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

You like having police and firefighters right? You like not having to bribe them to do what you want right? How about roads? Do you enjoy having to pay a toll on every road you drive on? How about your beloved military? Or would you rather prefer it entirely like blackwater/Executive Outcomes/Triple Canopy?

What DO you know about Socialism?

Well, I know that the Nazis = National Socialists.

Quote:

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill

Quote:

Every attempt at Communism has either failed or is failing:
Failed Communist and Socialist Societies: Went down with the Berlin Wall, failed due to overthrow by other forces, abandoned by inhabitants.

-Brook Farm and other Utopian Communities
-Soviet Union
-Eastern Bloc
-Yugoslavia
-Sandinista's Nicaragua
-Cambodia

Failing Communist and Socialist Societies: Forced to abandon their theories for moderation, pushed to the brink of failure.
-Cuba: all but abandoned socialism due to poverty, has become a dictatorship
-China: seeking capitalist-like reform with an expanded free trade ever since Mao's failures
-North Korea: on the brink of starvation due to disastrous failure

Quote:

What is Socialism? Many will tell you that socialism is a moderate form of Communism. Others claim them to be two distinctly different and opposite theories, communism being a cruel and harsh failure and socialism being an enlightened and successful theory. Both of these notions are false though. A recent popular distinction defines one as government controlling the means of production and the other as "the people" controlling the means of production. This too is false considering that the pursuit of either such definition is prone to developing government management of human activity. Though theory may claim distinctions between the two, in practice they become one in the same.

The idea of the sharing of incomes and government management of resources exists with little distinction from communism and its euphemistic partner socialism. In practice though the same problems plague both as freedom becomes necessarily usurped and trampled on due to abuse of power, economic impossibility, and unforeseen and unintended variables among other things. Because of socialism's inherent failures, it tends to resort to extreme measures. Communism is essentially Marx's name for socialist like systems. The only reason communism is equated with more extreme is mostly due to its acquaintance to the Soviet Union.

What is Communism? Again to many this definition is often a matter of great confusion. Some think it means socialism with force, others think it is socialism gone bad. A better definition is a utopian plan to enforce complete economic equality and achieve this by means of forced income redistribution and economic management. In short it is the same idea of socialism operating most often under a smaller branch of the socialist following known strictly as the communists. The ideas are practically the same only the name "communists" tend to attract more ideologues due mostly to a desire among them for alienation from a dissenting opposition, the capitalists, and for a hope of haste in implementing their utopian schemes. As displayed below, communism is in essence and in practice the same thing as its euphemized sister socialism.

The Differences Between the Two: The Six Shared Truths: It is hard to fully explain the idea of communism compared to socialism (due much to the fact that communists and socialists have never been able to agree upon and solidly establish exactly what distinguishes one from the other) but a few truths are undeniable:

(1) Both communism and socialism have an end utopian goal of complete equality in their ideal state.

(2) Both communism and socialism employ the practice of centralized economic managing and income redistribution as their primary means of working toward this so called "equality."

(3) Both communism and socialism experience the same types of problems in accomplishing this economic managing - the unintended side effect.

(4) Both socialism and communism are structured in such a way that an inherent inequality develops from the administrative top of the power structure for such is necessary to enforce compliance. Such compliance must be mandated in a socialist system due to the fact that human nature creates skepticism, opposition to the control of others, and a desire for free will.

(5) In both systems when this unequal elite inevitably emerges, the concentration of widespread power in a single space must intensify. This naturally attracts individuals seeking widespread power, or it corrupts individuals already in power with the lure of the same widespread power.

(6) As a result of the government structures found in both systems, the intensification of power and control on the upper level necessarily translates into the usurpation of remaining personal freedoms during its expansion.

The Socialist Myth

Quote:

This is more than just a failure to understand the Laffer curve. It's another cultural misstep by Obama. I can't help but wonder if the senator knows any cops or firemen. His appeal is to well-educated latte liberals. That remark about middle-income folks having turned to God, faith, and guns because of economic setbacks? Not only was it ill-advised, it illustrates the wide cultural chasm that exists between the candidate and the rest of America.

Obama's economics are bad and his social circle is very limited. This is one of the many reasons why a quarter of the Hillary Democrats are telling pollsters they'll likely move to John McCain in the general election.
Obama's real agenda is far-liberal left. It's an ideology that places income redistribution above economic growth. That's his real message. And it's the same one that sunk Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry. Obama is aligning himself with the Democratic losers. And that will make him a loser as well.

African American communities desperately need capital in order to create new businesses and jobs. As Obama takes the capital out of capitalism, all those who are not rich will be hurt when the rich folks with capital have less of it -- after tax -- to invest in those new businesses and new jobs. That's exactly why wealth-redistribution plans always backfire. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is a surefire economic loser. So is putting government in charge of the economy, which is what Mr. Obama is proselytizing.

This marks the third mistake for the Illinois senator. Not only does he not understand economics; not only is he set apart from middle-class values and beliefs; he apparently hasn't read much history either. Did someone say inexperience?

Obama's GOP Shadow | The Trail | washingtonpost.com

bhkad · 07-27-08, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danarhea

People in Arizona are sick of McCain. In 2007, Janet Napolitano, who is the current Governor of Arizona, lead him 47-36% for the 2010 Senate Race, and it has gotten worse for McCain since then. Napolitano has already formed a PAC dedicated to her election, and is making her move. Here is more about her. She is extremely popular, especially among Republican women. In her last gubernatorial election, she carried every single district over her opponent, making it the most lopsided gubernatorial election in the history of Arizona. If McCain is not elected president, which he won't be, he is toast in 2 more years. None of your hate speech is going to change what is about to happen. The Neocons will soon be in the garbage can.

Kernel Sanders · 07-27-08, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Well, I know that the Nazis = National Socialists.

[a bunch of quotes follow]

So we should go to pure capitalism? Close down public schools, public police departments, public fire departments, public water/waste management, medicare, medicade, welfare, the US Postal Service, Amtrack, public roads, etc etc etc. Should we let the free market take care of all of those things? Or do you admit that pure capitalism is just as ridiculous as pure communism, and that the US already implements a large number of socialist programs to the great benefit of its citizens?

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode