bhkad

After all this time it still needs explaining???

He confronted the axis of evil.

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OBL 11/24/02

Truth Detector

I guess all you Europeans didn't read the Joint Resolution. This resolution contains the legal reasons we went into Iraq. The above is evidence that you haven't taken the time to READ the TRUE reasons we and 34 other nations went in, including many in Europe:

Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

This document contains 1,857 words. Do share with us how many are devoted to Al Qaeda and WMDs. I can tell you that barely over 200 were. That amounts to about 10% of the document for those of you who appear to be mathematically challenged.

As for your argument about Yellow Cake; over 500 tons of the Iraqi yellow cake were just sold to Canada recently and shipped from Iraq.

“Non existant” Yellowcake Uranium Moved From Iraq to Canada - Blogger News Network
Iraq's nuclear 'yellowcake' moved to Canada | Philadelphia Inquirer | 07/06/2008

You were saying?

No Garza, certain European nations are totally free to thumb their noses at an ally who freed them from tyranny, forgave much of their war debt and worked to create Liberal Democracies which supplanted Dictatorships.

After all, what are friends for if you can’t bite the hand that liberated you right? How dare the US for expecting it’s ALLIES to support the decision to actually ENFORCE resolutions Saddam thumbed his nose at for a decade and preserve the precious oil resources Europe depends on from the Middle East.

I see that facts are not your forte’.


Wow, this statement is profound in its level of denial and ignorance. Last time I checked, the US entered the war in WWI and helped bring it to an abrupt end.

Last time I checked, the US sent tons of war time weapons and supplies to France and Britain during WWI.

Last time I checked, it was the US involvement in WWII that finally brought it to a quick end and helped to liberate Europe from the grip of Fascist dictatorships.

Last time I checked, it was the US that sent tons of weapons, fuel and supplies to Britain and Russia which helped fend off the Nazi domination until we eventually entered the war.

Last time I checked, it was the US that kept its troops at great cost in Europe for 50 years to defend it against possible Soviet Communist aggression.

But hey, why worry yourself about FACTS and HISTORY; you are free to spit in the face of America and weakly argue that America is the bad guy and Saddam was innocent.

That is why so many Americans bought and paid for Europe’s freedom; so it could eventually shove a stick in our eye when their pacifist policies didn’t mesh with our desire to remove terrorist threats and enforce UN resolutions.

Other than Britain, France and Germany have been pretty pathetic in their commitment to UN resolutions and enforcement and quick to benefit economically from despots who corrupt UN programs like the oil-for-food program; why change now?

No you don’t need to please America. You are FREE now to do whatever it is you all do; which is basically nothing, to preserve your freedom and defend Democracy from despots, thugs and dictators.

How nice that Europe can spend so much of their GDP on social welfare and leave their defense on the backs of the US taxpayer.

Did it ever occur to you why Europeans can spend so little on their own defense?

Hey, why let FACTS get in the way of your denial!! Europe knows that it can shove that stick in Americas eye, and we dumb hick Americans will continue to defend their freedoms and oil supply at no cost to Europe.

Slainte

And what were Merkel's and Sarkozy's position on the most high profile aspect of this move, the invasion of Iraq?

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We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon

GottaHurt

So when you make statements like:

"Europeans are a free people, with their own opinions."

Those opinions become null and void when our leadership says so?

Really. So if Tony Blair says it, then it's 100% unrefutable?

For AQ, maybe, maybe not. There is satellite evidence that shows training facilities in Iraq, and defectors have stated their purpose as such.

Photos Prove Connection Between Iraq and Al-Qaeda Terrorists

No need to debunk this, because you can't prove that it is false.

Hard to say. How many wars have been fought throughout history and for what reasons? How many countries have changed positions on who they support, or don't support?

What was the Trojan War fought over again?

So what.

Hmmm, if you're saying there was no yellow cake...

Canada just bought 550 metric tons from Iraq.

US Removes Iraq’s ‘Yellowcake’ To Canada | Sweetness & Light

Yes we did/do care about WMD's.

Saddam buried:

Ammunition/weapons

CNN.com - Huge*underground hideout*uncovered in Iraq - Jun 5, 2005

Saddam buried aircraft:

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraqi aircraft 'buried in desert'

Saddam buried himself:

CNN.com - Saddam 'caught like a rat' in a hole - Dec. 15, 2003

Yet people will fight tooth and nail saying "No WMD's have been found"

I say, "No WMD's have been found, yet".

If he buried everything else, including himself, it's only logical to conclude the WMD's are buried somewhere.

Yet it's perfectly fine for Europeans to do it to us.

Yes, yes we did. We took the necessary measures to perpetuate self preservation.

As opposed to the Europeans who collaborated and sipped coffee with the Germans, as they watched the deportation and slaughter of their own countrymen.

French oil giant TotalFinaElf, which has contracts worth up to $4 billion to develop Iraq's Majnoon oil field, has said it expects that contract to be honored.

CNN.com - Companies battle to rebuild Iraq - Jan. 14, 2004


But we did bail out Europe in WWI and WWII, and Western Europe has now known peace for its longest period in recorded history. Three cheers for America for stepping in and not only saving Europe, but keeping the peace for over half a century now.

When you're paying the piper, you get to call the tune. We've supplied more than just ammo and missiles to various countries in the war.

Army 'vacuum' missile hits Taliban - Times Online

We are the leaders of the free world, and the world turns to us for help.

Polls are shifting.

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

(look at the poll on the economy, Americans think the media is hyping it to be worse than it really is)

Noted and appreciated.

Wrong, that's why teams have captains. To dictate the strategy and keep the team focused, disciplining when neceassary, praising when deserved, and always maintaining an outwardly positive disposition.

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Pain can be such a beautiful thing

GarzaUK

I just repeated what your leadership said, nothing more. If very little was about AQ or WMD's? Then why did your leadership champion these reasons so? And you failed to answer why they offered to let Saddam stay in power if he handed over WMD's.


So the blood of young Europeands must be shed for a debt in WW2?
Who's biting your hand? We disagreed with you. The Iraq War was not necessary. The US was not threatened by Iraq, the US did not need liberated from anything and therefore we did not need to come your aid. If the US was threatened, then maybe you might have a case.





You do know that the WW1 began in 1914 right, not 1917? Why did the US not go into the war in 1914, because the US disagreed with the war and had no need to enter it. Europe seen no need for the Iraq war, so we did no need to enter it.
For free? Just wondering?
Yes. You were crucial to the defeat of Nazi Germany. So was the Soviet Union and the British Empire. What has this to do with Iraq?
Yes true. Russian manpower fought off Nazi domination as well. As did Britains stragetic position.
For the benefit of Europe and the US. US needed allies after all.
I havent spit in the face of America. I didn't say America was the bad guy and I NEVER stated that Saddam was innocent. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.
So did Canada, so did Australia, So did New Zealand, so did India, so did Europeans, they all bought and paid for European freedom. This does not give America a blank cheque to demand Europe's following. Last time I checked America is not the dictator of Europe.

Yet you get angry when our freedom is not to your liking??
Because at the minute, we dont need it. Fighting against terrorism doesnt need a big military. Plus we like solving the problems that we have here rather than ignoring them.
So wait you agree that we can exercise our right to express our freedom. Yet get angry when we do when it doesnt suit you?? That has to be ironic in some sense lol.

I am shoving a stick in eye of America for exercising my freedom to disagree with the US? Isn't that what American soliders who died in Europe wanted in the first place, excercise my freedom?

I think I got the gist of your post that Europe basically "owes America one". But its not like a favour where we borrowed your car when ours broke down. When war is concerned we are talking about YOUNG MENS LIVES here. We will not throw them away for something as unnecessary as the Iraq War.

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They tried like hell. They called him an élitist, a radical, a socialist, a Marxist, a Muslim, an Arab, an appeaser, a danger to the republic, a threat to small children, a friend of terrorists, an enemy of Israel, a vote thief, a non-citizen, an anti-American, and a celebrity. ~ George Packer

GottaHurt

He stands firm in his beliefs.

Reaching across the pond and working together, instead of launching childish insults and pouting like Chirac and Schroeder did.

Kerry is irrelevant, he's a loser.

You do realize that McCain is from the same party as Reagan, and that Iraq Obama is in coalition with Jimmy Carters old party.

Yes, it would have been easier, because Kerry and Gore are spineless pushovers. I know this is hard for most liberals to understand, but we elect a President to look out after our best interests, not win a popularity contest.

That's right, it's pretty obvious that Iraq Obama is the darling of the media right now. I was watching coverage of where he was going to speack today, and the majority of the crowd I saw, were young, he's also very popular with the youth here stateside. Where's your argument?

McCain? I said nothing of McCain or a silent majority. I said the voters in Europe elected pro Bush administrations.

European opinion polls mean doodle squat here in America.

I was showing how polls can be way off

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Pain can be such a beautiful thing

PeteEU

Pft, same old same old excused and revisionist crap from the American right.

GarzaUK is 100% correct in his assessment. The public around the world were not sold the Iraq war based on "violations" of UN resolutions and no one is buying that Saddam after a decade of fierce sanctions suddenly merited to be "called" on his UN resolution failings.

The war was sold on 2 things.. Al Q and Saddam were buddies and Iraq had WMD and the finger on the trigger. Both were false, and we all knew the first one was false, and the second one was at best... odd as there was no credible evidence what so ever... especially when we saw the BBC story about Saddams former WMD czar claiming in 1995 that all WMD material were destroyed after the first gulf war. A fact the US ignored.

Yellow cake from BEFORE the 1991 Gulf War was recently sold to Canda lol. The argument at the time was that Iraq was attempting to get yellow cake (as said by Fuhrer Bush in his State of the Union). Nice try to twist historical facts.

Oh boy here we go... the usual guilt trip attempt.

Okay lets remind you Yanks that if it was not for the French you would not be a country today. So why should you not listen to France on ALL issues? Or maybe we should thank the Vikings for discovering the continent in the first place..

Not entirely correct. The US entry into WW1 had almost no military benefit (as the US commanders did not listen and got tons of Americans killed for no reason), but the mental boost the allies got and the mental hit the Germans got, had a huge impact to end the war. That is historical fact.

Well, not exactly correct. The US had next to no military hardware to sell and no industry to produce weapons. When the US troops finally did enter the war, they were poorly equipped and badly trained. Only thing they had going for them was their rifle skills, which were second to non.

Depends on what you define as quick. The Nazis were on the run before the US has fired a shot in Europe. El Alamien and Stalingrad had both happened before the US set foot on European/African soil and those 2 battles are widely accepted as the turning points in Europe.

That is true, and that's despite Congress and most US politicians either attempting to block the lend lease or out right rooting for the Nazis. Granddaddy Bush got a nice profit from working with the Nazis after all.

LOL like European nations did not pay a bundle to have US troops here.

No you seem not to grasp the facts of history and as for "spitting in the face of America".. blame your President for any spitting as it was his brain dead actions that resulted in Europe and most of the world turning their backs on America after we rallied behind the US after 9/11.

Saddam was never ever ever innocent and no one in Europe has ever claimed that. In fact the only ones that have even uttered those words, were right wingers in an attempt to bash non believers and paint them as pro terrorist something.

Hey we had no problems in removing terrorist threats and enforce UN resolutions. It was Bush that wanted to take out Saddam for some reason, and ignore the terrorist threat in Afghanistan.

Hahah, comes from the nation that has vetoed most UNSC resolutions the last decade. As for oil for food.. post a topic and lets discuss that...

So when is the US gonna go after the despots that it backs with military hardware, money and political backing?..Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and so on?

Defence from what? What armies are going to invade Europe? What armies are going to invade the US!?

Yes, we are not bloodthirsty and believe that the only good policy is to beat the crap out of those that disagree with us. We kinda got over that phase of our history with WW2.

Give me a break. Defend the oil supply? You do know the "defence" of the oil supply has pushed up the price to over 100 dollars per barrel right and empowered the true threat to the world Iran? Not to mention revitalized Al Q around the world and drove the US into a paranoid frenzy that has lead to the murders of Sikhs to the forced removal of nipple rings and strip searches at airports of Americans and non Americans. Some defence you got there... making things worse.. but i guess its good for business.

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PeteEU

Slainte

What?

I'm asking what policies the current French and German governments have adopted which makes them pro-Bush.

I seem to remeber most of the insults coming from cretins like Rumsfeld, Feith et al.

Fischer and Villepin to name but two generally offered insightful criticism about the dangers of invading Iraq, particularly the difficulties that would arise in reconstructing and reunifiying the country. I think in retrospect their warnings and doubts have been completely justified.

I'm not sure what the latter means and I don't think this answers my point.

You claimed that the election of Merkel and Sarkozy signalled European voters moving away from the "fraud", "socialist" parties of Chirac and Schroeder when in reality those parties maintained a strng presence in government.

This is really all I wanted.

As you should. I believe a strong relationship between Europe and the US is integral to US interests.

My argument is that a 60 (sixty) point lead in an opinion poll indicates that Obama is more popular than McCain across pretty much any age group.

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We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon

rsixing

I think it's a valid comparison. If we can't judge the potentiality of the future (in this instance a sitting president and potential future president) by what has happened or not happened in the past then how will be ever learn from history?

Don't get me wrong, I understand your skepticism and angst but at least Obama is taking a very cogent and defined position. This in the least shows an effort on his part to deal with international states concerning international situations.

GottaHurt

You asked me "what the hell makes you pro-Bush?"

I guess it's the language barrier, as another poster read it the same way as I did, and gave you a response as well.

You might want to brush up on your English

Too early to tell in regard to policy, as I stated previously, their willingness to reach across the pond and extend an olive branch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/07/wo...ca5&ei=5087%0A

They pitched a fit because they (France) were going to lose their telecommunication and oil contracts, and the Germans were going to lose their bunker contracts. They could've been on board and been right back in the saddle, but no, they screwed themselves with their silly political posturing.

Claimed?

Corruption scandals in the Paris region - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chirac and corruption are practically synonymous.

Agreed, but our interests should always come first.

Again, you cling to some worthless European poll.

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Pain can be such a beautiful thing