Truth Detector

Your response is hardly surprising.

MSgt

The funny thing about you people who keep boasting about the "damage" done with our allies is that most of you haven't a clue what has been going on and what that damage was. This has far less to do about politics than it does about post Cold War world environoment. President Bush's only mistake with some of our allies was that he allowed them a way out from addressing their true selves (by giving them WMD excuses) on the international stage and he was too bold with some of his statements. France was all about exerting their feeble power by chastizing us on the world stage about Iraq, but two years after we toppled Saddam Hussein, they excitedly dropped in a consulate building in Iraq didn't they? Years and years of fighting in Afghanistan and nations like Germany and others who turned their backs on us in regards to Iraq have still not joined us completely and continue to do the bare minimum while boasting that they are with us when it comes to Afghanistan. Strange considering that our joint Euro/American venture in the former Yugoslavia saw America launch more than sixty percent of the sorties for their immediate concerns.

The damage that was done between allies has far more to do with Europe's identity than our cowboy antics to dismiss their concerns over Iraq. Until the invasion into Iraq, nations like France and Germany got away with it because typical Americans didn't care beyond their borders. But since "To topple or not to topple" occurred, they have been exposed. Even their small contribution into Afghanistan has been more than public knowledge. Senator Obama will merely sooth French and German sentiments so that they feel like they are at our table again, which is grown into the American/British table. In the end, they will have to grow up and leave the twentieth century behind. It won't be us stepping backwards. We were finally ready to move forward after 9/11. They were not. Muslim immigration into their nations will eventually force it. Eventually, they will join us one way or another. And it doesn't matter what we do next....they will participate somewhat just to try to prove that they are a part of the "team."

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MSgt
Semper Fidelis
USMC

Summerwind

I'm glad that it isn't surprising when I quickly and efficiently locate the core of our disagreement and address it concisely.

WI Crippler

Maybe my poor American public education has failed me, but I could have sworn there was more than 3 countries that comprised Europe.

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"We have people like that in our world too. People who say that freedom is no longer practical, that we must surrender it for a greater common good."

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GarzaUK

If this was true Europeans would have rejected the Afganistan war outright or in fact every war America pursued after the Cold war. In fact the majority of Europeans supported the war in Afganistan. Because the objectives were clear and concise. Get the people of 9/11 and make sure Afghanistan was not a training ground for Islamic terrorists.
When it comes to Iraq... look most Europeans thought that Iraq had WMD's, however it was when your leadership strating changing the reasons like
1. Iraq was a training ground for AQ - FALSE even Tony Blair said it
2. Saddam and Bin Laden were buddies - FALSE
3. To Free Iraq of Saddam - thats fine, but why now? And why when the US were supporting other questionable regimes? And why did your leadership say that Saddam could stay in power if he gave up WMD's??
4. Because he tried to kill your President's daddy
5. Yellow Cake

All this above made Europeans realise that your leadership did not give a damn about WMD's, they wanted this war and they said some pretty BS to get it. Thats why I was against the Iraq War, plus I didn't think it would a good idea....turns out right.
What so we have to follow the US, agree with and do anything what they say like an obedient dog? Europeans are a free people, with their own opinions. You cant chastice them for having their own mind and disagreeing with you.
The US totally overreacted over this, changing French Fries to Freedom fries. But this is nothing new, in 1917 some parts of the US banned playing Beethoven, in 1941, throwing Americans with Japanese orgins into conc camps without trial etc etc. America really does get war fever. I dont know why you guys picked on the French so much, since the whole security council including Russia and China would have vetoed. But hey better not piss of the Chinese too much eh?
Wow! Only two years after?? They really could wait to get their greedy hands on Iraq right? Why did they wait for two years when the first 3-6 months after Saddam was toppled Iraq was pretty stable.
Also setting consuls in Nation's Captials is pretty common and the norm. It would be strange if France DIDN'T put a consulship there.
Besides all the oil contracts had long gone to US companies anyway.
So Europe disagreeing with Iraq is "turning their backs on us"? The last time I checked when the US disagrees with a war, they generally dont fight it. 1914-17 and 1939-1941 spring to mind. But when Europe disagrees with a war, we are lambasted??
I really wish it was an American/British table, but your leadership doesnt even listen to the British leadership. It is actually an all American table, with a "we will do what we want and to the hell with the lot of you." If the US wants to the title of leader of the free world it has to be a leader. People NEVER follow arrogance.
Really? Well you better back up a bit. Because the US people believe they are headed in the wrong direction.
Yeah of course we are all eager to please America. A team is not a team if one player dictates the play.

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They tried like hell. They called him an élitist, a radical, a socialist, a Marxist, a Muslim, an Arab, an appeaser, a danger to the republic, a threat to small children, a friend of terrorists, an enemy of Israel, a vote thief, a non-citizen, an anti-American, and a celebrity. ~ George Packer

GarzaUK

LOL true. The UK, France and Germany are the "big three" in Europe. They are basically the ones who hold international influence.

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They tried like hell. They called him an élitist, a radical, a socialist, a Marxist, a Muslim, an Arab, an appeaser, a danger to the republic, a threat to small children, a friend of terrorists, an enemy of Israel, a vote thief, a non-citizen, an anti-American, and a celebrity. ~ George Packer

Slainte

What the hell makes you "pro-Bush"?

Name me one thing Bush has done which you think Merkel and Sarkozy support, which you don't think Kerry would do.

You are awaree that Sarkozy is from the SAME party as Chirac and that Merkel is in coalition with Schroeders old party.

Tbh honest not that interesting. Most Europeans know that we need to work with America, regardless of who the President is, I just think it would have been easier to do that with either Gore or Kerry.



Right, but you seemed to imply only young people and the media liked Obama and also possibly that a silent majority would prefer McCain. Opinion polls show that is completely false.


Did they have him in front by 45 to 60 points at any time?

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mikhail

I think due to the way the press has covered the election most people dont even know who john mccain is.Im sure if Amerians where shown video of cameron and gordon brown giving speehes they would prefer cameron he gives a better speech cameron also introduced john mccain as the next president of the united states recently.

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The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

bhkad

Chalk it up to that poster's liberal elitism to leave the rest of Europe out of the voting.

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OBL 11/24/02

Slainte

I bet geography was your favourite subject huh?

I used those polls because they were easy to find and contained the European country I believed would be most favourable to McCain (the UK) and least favourable (France).

There are others which reflect similar sentiments:



Pew Global Attitudes Project: Overview: Global Economic Gloom - China and India Notable Exceptions

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Barack Obama beats John McCain in European vote: US election 2008 - Telegraph

If you know of any European country that would prefer McCain by all means share...

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We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon