Are Democracy & Islam Compatible? - Page 4

bhkad · 06-05-08, 12:40 AM

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Originally Posted by CMartucci

Why? How do those things specifically restrict them from practicing democracy?

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Democracy means the rule of the demos, the common people, or what is now known as popular or national sovereignty.

In Islam, however, power belongs only to God: al-hukm l'illah. The man who exercises that power on earth is known as Khalifat al-Allah, the regent of God.

But even then the Khalifah or Caliph cannot act as legislator. The law has already been spelled out and fixed for ever by God.

The only task that remains is its discovery, interpretation and application.

That, of course, allows for a substantial space in which different styles of rule could develop.

But the bottom line is that no Islamic government can be democratic in the sense of allowing the common people equal shares in legislation.

AMIR TAHERI'S REMARKS AT DEBATE "ISLAM IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH DEMOCRACY" - Amir Taheri - Benador Associates

Individual Muslims can certainly enjoy Democracy. But, until Islam no longer includes legal, political, economic and military components it will always be in ideological opposition to our system of government.

And until the Koran no longer commands Muslims to "rest not until Allah is the sole worshiped God," which is "basically a theological mandate of never-ending expansion and dominance... by force if necessary," then SOMEONE and more likely many someones will be actively working (in ways large and small, violently and non-violently) to eliminate Democracy.

The goal is for Allah's laws to prevail here and in every nation on Earth.

bhkad · 06-05-08, 12:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Goldenboy219

If anything, they would be close allies.

Majority rule = democracy (although im sure you are quite aware of this

)

It is why our form of government (in regards to its actual intent) is superior to all other forms.

Are you saying that Islam and Democracy should be close allies?

winston53660 · 06-05-08, 12:51 AM

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Originally Posted by bhkad

Are you saying that Islam and Democracy should be close allies?

Aren't they already? After all it is the tyranny of the majority.

bhkad · 06-05-08, 12:55 AM

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Originally Posted by Goldenboy219

Democracy (as i have said before) is in many ways used as a tool to force "popular agenda". Democracy will most certainly lead to elective despotism.

You are certainly able to practice Democracy in choosing to express your belief that Democracy as it's practiced here in America today may lead to Despotism.

However, the issue at hand is whether our form of government or your version of a Utopian government (Govutopia) or ANY form of government is compatible with Islam.

Please try to focus your mental energies to that topic and I'll look forward to your newly directed contributions.

Goldenboy219 · 06-05-08, 12:57 AM

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Originally Posted by bhkad

Are you saying that Islam and Democracy should be close allies?

I am saying under the right leader, Democracy can be used as a tool to push majoritatarian perspectives. I guess im getting at rule of law is by far superior to rule of man.

bhkad · 06-05-08, 12:59 AM

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Originally Posted by winston53660

Aren't they already? After all it is the tyranny of the majority.

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Many Islamist thinkers regard democracy with horror.

The late Ayatollah Khomeini called democracy " a form of prostitution" because he who gets the most votes wins the power that belongs only to God.

Sayyed Qutub, the Egyptian who has emerged as the ideological mentor of Safalists, spent a year in the United States in the 1950s.

He found "a nation that has forgotten God and been forsaken by Him; an arrogant nation that wants to rule itself."

Last year Yussuf al-Ayyeri, one of the leading theoreticians of today's Islamist movement, published a book ( available on the Internet) in which he warned that the real danger to Islam did not come from American tanks and helicopter gunships in Iraq but from the idea of democracy and rule by the people.

AMIR TAHERI'S REMARKS AT DEBATE "ISLAM IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH DEMOCRACY" - Amir Taheri - Benador Associates

bhkad · 06-05-08, 01:01 AM

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Originally Posted by Goldenboy219

I am saying under the right leader, Democracy can be used as a tool to push majoritatarian perspectives. I guess im getting at rule of law is by far superior to rule of man.

And do you think man should be able to determine the laws he lives by?

Goldenboy219 · 06-05-08, 01:32 AM

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Originally Posted by bhkad

You are certainly able to practice Democracy in choosing to express your belief that Democracy as it's practiced here in America today may lead to Despotism.

Democracy is reliant on a non-existant constitutional government. The mere presence of our constitution should all but rule out a democratic form of government.

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However, the issue at hand is whether our form of government or your version of a Utopian government (Govutopia) or ANY form of government is compatible with Islam.

I find it mildly amusing a self renowned republican is referring to his very own republic as Utopian. If that was not your intent, i apologize in advance. Although you will have to further explain your stance in this regard.

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Please try to focus your mental energies to that topic and I'll look forward to your newly directed contributions.

Our Bill of Rights is what separates us from the rest of the world. A mock republic in the image of our own is unattainable in the middle east.

jallman · 06-05-08, 01:47 AM

I've read the Koran cover to cover and while I don't understand some of the concepts put forth in it, I do understand one thing: it is a religion of domination and forced conversion. That mandate saturates the Koran and I don't care what sect is practiced, if they are keeping with the letter of the message, they are prone to force conversion by any means necessary and most often with a preference toward the forcing conversion by the sword. If democracy forgoes the supposition that one has personal choice, then yeah, Islam and democracy would be compatible. But then it wouldn't be a democracy anymore. So, no, I do not believe that the two are compatible at all.

bhkad · 06-05-08, 01:53 AM

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Originally Posted by Goldenboy219

Democracy is reliant on a non-existant constitutional government. The mere presence of our constitution should all but rule out a democratic form of government.

I'm not interested in that line of thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldenboy219

I find it mildly amusing a self renowned republican is referring to his very own republic as Utopian. If that was not your intent, i apologize in advance. Although you will have to further explain your stance in this regard.

I was referring to your Utopian idea of government. What I'm trying to do is to get you to consider whether our form of government... or any other form of government, even the one you might dream of, is compatible with Islam.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboy219

Our Bill of Rights is what separates us from the rest of the world. A mock republic in the image of our own is unattainable in the middle east.

Again, the question is whether any other form of government is compatible with Islam.