Vader

Dave,

Hamas is a terrorist group. Terrorists lie, cheat, murder, and steal!

You cannot expect terrorists or their supporters to be honest, forthright, or even decent human beings.

Hamas needs to face total irradication --- as does the government of Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia.

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sotrueblue

I think Jenin was referring to attacks on those elements of the military that contain both Jews and other peoples.

Im afraid it is political, but to characterise the conflict as somehow non sectarian would be stupid. Hamas, commits suicide bombings against civilian targets but these are often not random targets but in fact are targetted for a reason. Like religious schools, settler buses, or reserve soldiers waiting at a bus stop. There is a logic in all these attacks. Its much like when Israel targets a Hamas leader knowing full well that civilians will die in this attempt, the logic goes - those civilians should know to stay away from these targets and if they cant then any deaths are the targets fault.

mpg

I seriously doubt that Israel feels that way about civilian casualties. It's like when the Allies liberated France during WW II. Everyone knew that French civilians would be killed in the process. It was a necessary evil but the Allies didn't believe that those civilians desserved to die. Do you have any evidence that Isreal looks at collateral damage in the way that you claim?

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"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer

mpg

Dave didn't say that the killings are TOTALLY random. I don't think that anyone disputes the fact that Hamas targets Jewish civilians. What he was saying was they don't strictly target the military, therefore there is some randomness to the attacks.

Jenin

In fact, the al-Aqsa Channel is an independent media institution that often does not express the views of the Palestinian government headed by Ismail Haniyeh or of the Hamas movement. The channel regularly gives Palestinians of different convictions the chance to express views that are not shared by the Palestinian government or the Hamas movement. In the case of the opinion expressed on al-Aqsa TV by Amin Dabbur, it is his alone and he is solely responsible for it.

this section of the article must not be overlooked.

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"A child becomes a man when he knows what came before him" -- Anonymous
"Conquerors, my son, consider as true history only what they themselves have fabricated"
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%...ut%201948.html

Vader

This is more non-sensical terrorist jibber-jabber. You are pushing the lies your indoctrinators have been forcing down your throat since you were conceived.

Your education comes for Islam-o-nazi approved text books. My education comes from people free to teach the truth. Therefore, you are permenantly discredited.

Nothing you say will ever have any meaning. Nothing you have been taught is the *real* truth. It is only the lies told by power hungry islam-o-nazi zealots.

Wake up !!! Realize you've been lied to ... and seek the truth ... not more islam-o-nazi lies.

Jenin

Is jesus the truth? I want to seek the truth! Tell me, o great wise man, how I may find the truth... I need to join the evangelical church and go on a tour to Israel to help the oppressed starving jews my white masters killed... I need to renounce my identity, duh! Palestine doesnt exist, palestinian people dont exist, hell...I dont exist... I need to jerk off to starwars and love the military, drink lots of beer and vote republican, love the lord jeebus, who came to save me from being a muzzie, and continue to live mylife as a prole, a hypocrite, a nobody with no voice, regurgitate what the bible says and hate all that is different..... I finally figured it out.... when do I get to buy the case for Israel, get Dershowitz to sign it, and go to bible camp?

Vader

Actually, as hard as it is for brainwashed persons like yourself to cope with, I am not saying ANYTHING of the sort. I am saying you need to seek truth --- that is find information from a non-islamic source. Try getting materials that have not been sterlized by your islamic branishwashers / clerics. Find out what they're hinding from you. Look into more than just their idiotic rhetoric.

I am a christian but unlike you and your countryman ... my religon doesn't decide who I need to hate. My religon doesn't dictate what I do for a living and it doesn't teach me to strap explosives to my body and attack a non-christian group.

Can you say the same for your religon? Clearly, no, you cannot. Your religon has degraded into a brainwashing tool that is used by some cleric scumbags to overlly influence the citizens of your country into doing whatever he wants.

I can't think of a single time in the history of my religon that one of my pastors, Bishops, Priests, ect ... told me that I would get a free pass into heavan if I strapped a bomb to my chest and detonated in room full of muslims, jews, ect...

This happens all the time in the middle east --- and it happens at the behest of muslim clerics who seek to spread terror and hatred in the name of Islam and Allah!

Quite simply --- STOP LETTING YOUR RELIGON AND YOUR RELIGIOUS BRAINWASHERS THINK FOR YOU.

Have the courage to challenge them when you think they are wrong. Stop being a mindless participant in their game. Stand up and ask questions -- demand that they explain why they do what they do.

Finally, do not settle for their ridiculous -- we're wise clerics and you just blindly obey -- type answers to your questions.

Develop some balls and stop being blindly controlled by your religon.

donsutherland1

Moderator's Warning:

Members should refrain from name-calling and mocking one another's religions.

DivineComedy

Finally, the right question. I will answer it with the book:

"003.048
YUSUFALI: "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
PICKTHAL: And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel,
SHAKIR: And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel."
USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

"005.068
YUSUFALI: Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.
PICKTHAL: Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
SHAKIR: Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people." USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12)

*****

Matthew 6:5-13: And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.”

"And what this non islamic verses have to do with muslim ???" http://www.debatepolitics.com/religi...post1057492829

*****

Tell me Jenin how is that dressing up in civilian clothes, and terror, going for your people? You are blind Jenin, blind to the arguments that could have been yours.

"002.257
YUSUFALI: Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).
PICKTHAL: Allah is the Protecting Guardian of those who believe. He bringeth them out of darkness into light. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.
SHAKIR: Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide." USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts

Why are you blind Jenin?

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“[59.14] They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified towns or from behind walls; their fighting between them is severe, you may think them as one body, and their hearts are disunited; that is because they are a people who have no sense.”

Yeah, a wall and a border patrol will protect us. {sound of laughter}