Scucca

The missus is an academic and, when she isn't on a jolly abroad, teaches at post-grad level. She has noticed a tendency towards students choosing modules according to perceived employer preferences, even if that involves choosing subjects that they have an increased risk of failure. If that does reflect actual employer demands then I think you're quite correct in suggesting the impact can be negative. We essentially get a more homogeneous student body, with students too concerned about fitting the "ideal". The human capital role of education can then be reduced, with students less motivated by investing in their skills and more concerned about achieving the certification deemed valuable.

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gunner

I think the governments push to get so many young adults into further education can in some instances steer them in the wrong direction. There are many school leavers choosing worthless degrees where they would probably be more suited to a vocational type job.
Education, Education, Education was the call when Labour came to power which I'm all for but, the reality is cuts, cuts, cuts. My 11yr old daughter whilst in her primary school went through some fundamental changes, her class sizes increased, next they decided to amalgamate two years together. This resulted in teachers having to set two lots of work. There were benefits for some gifted children from the younger tier by having access to higher tier work but, overall it has caused many more problems than has solved.
From my school days it was the gifted [in general] who went on to further education which i feel is the way it should be. As i have found out later in life its never too late to return.

sorry for going abit off track.

Paul.

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Always judge a lady by the contents of her mind, never by the shape of her bum.

Scucca

Why would they choose them (and give themselves hefty debts) if they were worthless? They must be valued by someone to make it worthwhile

gunner

why would they choose them? Um because there easier! Relative to certain other degrees. Engineering for example has much less subscribers than say Media Studies. Many an industrial employer are calling out for Chemists, Physicists etc I know my industry is [Defence].
The way the young view debt is very different to the way you and i may. Most rightly have a more care free attitude and class it as a worry for another day.
Of course media studies is valued by, "The Media Industry" But are there more subscribers than job places? who really makes a living from it? Very few if your honest. Most end up on a different career path totally unconnected. how do i know this, "life experience".

Paul.

Scucca

I don't think its that simple. The youngster is typically rational. They will often, for example, have a vague idea about the returns to specific university degrees.

You'd have to suggest that tertiary education is not an investment but a consumption good. Media studies becomes "a jolly", as 3 years of fun replaces the nastiness of labour force effort. But hasn't that always been the case? A chance for the middle classes to escape their boarding schools and meet the odd lass...

gunner

I was being sum what facetious, but there's a train of thought who often suggest that there is a percentage who actually do choose "Media studies" as apposed to a more Math based subject for ease. I feel this is reflected in the reality culture that has spawned of late, The fascination of being famous.
I'm not convinced its your "Middle classes" who are fuelling the trend, but of course your definition of "Middle class" may conflict with mine [Another topic].
Degree courses are [until tuition fees] get out of hand open to far more school leavers than in previous generations, So in return your getting lower bench mark admissions for the easier type degrees on offer, so in effect your getting a lower caliber of student, a watered down version of old.

Paul.

Scucca

There is still a positive return from so-called easier subjects, so there must be value somewhere. Its also difficult to map ease of subject and practical application. For example, it tends to be much harder to do well in an English degree than in a Business degree

Billo_Really

I dont' know what to say.

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"With neocons, it just goes to show, when the
bar is low enough, you can never be too wrong!"

gunner

surely there's only positive return if the said student gets a job relating to the degree in question? If not he/she has been absent from the labour market for 4 years and ends up doing a job which needed no degree in the first place, which is the case many times [through over subscription].
If the student researched prior to choosing there career path they may well have been better opportunities, prospects of gaining employment by selecting an appropriate course.
I have first hand knowledge of this being the case, a friends daughter chose [speech therapy] only to find although there's a shortage of trained therapists less than 20% find employment in that field.
I would expect an English degree to be far more difficult than Business studies Degree. English is far more complex and specialised IMO. I gained a Business module whilst doing an HND Electrical & Electronic Engineering and as long as you get your head around pie charts, Bar charts costings etc it wasn't that difficult.

bub

Neither do I, Billo

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