jallman

First off, he's not required to have a plan for New Orleans. New Orleans should have a plan for New Orleans. McCain is required to have a plan for disaster relief anywhere at a national level. The only plan he needs to have is how/when to call out the military to assist and to make sure that they do so.

I am sure the 3000 corpses from ground zero might beg to diiffer with your assessment. They didn't really have an evacuation plan in the event of a plane crashing into the building whereas New Orleans was warned for days.

He is on point. It's his job to make sure FEMA response and national response to natural disaster is at an acceptable level. You didn't think an Arizona senator had much obligation to go rebuild New Orleans before, did you?

True, in that it is being blown up and spun into something it's not rather than debating the man on issues. You've managed to keep it down in the mud where democrats campaign best.

Wasn't his place to blast anyone before, though he did speak against the president and the Republican party on many occasions in the past. You conveniently forget the reputation the man has had his entire career. Instead, you want to scream "it's fake, it's an illuuuuusion" because to approach the real issues honestly is the political death of the liberal messiah.

The legislation that got put before him included "wasteful, pork barrel spending" with projects that did not go through congress for normal review. I like that. I like that he didn't let pork projects go ride the Katrina pity party. He has also stated that he is always willing to reform legislation that holds up help being delivered to Katrina.

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Prayer and blasphemy...the two are so narrowly separated in these trying times.

independent_thinker2002

So what if New Orleans never has a plan? Shouldn't the leader of the country show some leadership and help them come up with a plan. New Orleans is a port city. There are national interests there. Sometimes a leader needs to step in and set the agenda. I believe this is one of those times.

True, they told the people in the second tower to go back to work after the first tower got hit. But I wasn't talking about deaths. I was talking about things we can rebuild. The warning has nothing to do with the rebuilding.

A national shipping port is everyone's interest. He has been running for a year now. As for the previous two years, no it wasn't his obligation.

I'm sorry that I found the timing of things questionable. Just like it's questionable how he thought it was a mistake to seek the endorsement yet he was happy to have it as he stated to George Stephanapolous recently.


Why didn't he reform legislation then? He could have sponsored a new bill minus the pork.

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Butters Stotch

An interesting post sir. I thought by reading your posts that you were Republcian. You fooled me! If you're not a Democrat or Republican are you a Libertarian? A Socialist? An Independent?

I for one am a Liberal and I can unashamedly stand up and get counted as a long time progressive with a strong social conscience. I believe strongly in individual rights and will fiercely defend someone's right to decide for themselves what is best for them within our existing laws. One of the worst character flaws I detect in certain Americans is their desire to control other Americans.

Ever hear this statement? "To Thine Own Self Be True." These are words that I live by.

rsixing

NP claims to be whatever fits his "argument" at the moment.

But definitely an ultra-far-right-Limbaugh-loving-Obama-hating conservative. Don't let him fool you.

ps. Welcome to the board Butters Stotch

Navy Pride

First I want to apologize to you because I have been a little hard on you and your new here..........Welcome to the forum............As far as my political stance I belong to no party and consider myself a Conservative......I vote for the candidate who I agree closest to the issues on............In this era it is usually the Republicans but in a lot of ways they are just as screwed up as the Democrats............I do vote for a Democrat every 2 years who is my congressman Norm Dicks.........I disagree with him on a lot of issues but he is strong on defense and the military...........

Now we should probably get back on topic..........

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independent_thinker2002

First you said that he was there to discuss his plan and now you say he doesn't need one? It may not be required, but anyone who is presidential material should be able to come in with a plan where one is needed. And what does 2005 have to do with it. Are you saying that since things weren't solved in 2005 that we should just give up?

He wasn't running for President in that election year he criticized Rummy. He said that we would win the war in Iraq "easily". I'm not saying that he is afraid to take on Bush. I am noticing the political opportunism of the timing of it.

Blame the victims. That will get things done. Legislation frees up money to help rebuild the city. You don't really expect the poor unskilled, uneducated to rebuild the infrastructure do you?

I'm not running for President. Thanks.

What would be worse than a symbolic gesture? Helping people whose lives were destoyed? I still am not clear what you mean.

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independent_thinker2002

Post #61.

No, that was a slam dunk.

Way to simplify the situation. The problem with New Orleans is a little deeper than trash in the yards.

So if I don't abandon my family and clean up yards in New Orleans I am not helping Obama?

Not everyone on welfare is wasting their life. I know you don't pity the poor and unfortunate. I know that people abuse the system. Should we eliminate defense spending because that gets abused? 500 dollar hammers and 100 dollar toilet seats? I think you focus on the abuse and deny the people that truly need help. A good portion of the people declaring bankruptcy these days are due to hospital bills and they even had insurance.

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independent_thinker2002

I agree with you 100%.

Why is that not endearing to you? You would have had a tiebreaking vote in the Senate if he would have been elected. I understand party unity is extremely important to your party. I would argue that is why Bush didn't find his veto pen until 2007.

People haven't come back to those homes and neighborhoods. You live in Chicago. You should know it takes the government to reclaim and rebuild neighborhoods.

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I expect someone to have a plan. If Obama goes to New Orleans and says "never again will this happen" and he doesn't have a plan I expect you will jump on it.

So what about the genuinely helpless? We can agree on reform. I don't think the system is perfect. We can't say, "Sorry helpless people, people abused the system so you are screwed."

Black people aren't the only ones on welfare. I don't know why you inject race into this. If you are more concerned about the poor and unfortunate than me, what do you propose to do to help them? Remember, you aren't constrained here.

I would also add that one extended hospital stay insures that you cannot succeed. Adjusted for inflation, people make $1000 less a year than they did 8 years ago. I am not sure that people can succeed in all situations. We do differ on that. In spite of the people that abuse the system, we can't let those who don't suffer. People with poor education and low intelligence can't make it on minimum wage or next to it. I think it's unfair to try to paint me as not recognizing that people can succeed. Sure many can, but are lazy or playing into a victimhood mentality. But not all can. Your words focus on the abuse and not the helpless. Forgive me if I don't sense your concern as your words are all I have to go by.

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independent_thinker2002

What about the children of irresponsible parents? What about the widowed? What about single parents?

What you know about Katrina is through the media's eye. I am sure there were plenty of other races screwed too. Your neighborhood in Chicago is that way, but there are plenty of people of other races with the same issue, in Chicago and downstate. Now, you may say that it is disproportionately a black issue and that is where racial history and systemic injustice come into play.

Yes, unless they have a felony. Then they can't make a decent living. Yes, that is their fault, but their family suffers for it.

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independent_thinker2002

Until those children are able to make something of themselves, they shouldn't suffer. I never said that they couldn't make something of themselves. But until that time state assistance makes sure that they are educated, fed, and healthy. That is done through welfare.

Yes, which comes down to why are they disproportionately impoverished.

Many ex-felons lie about their status as a felon because they have to. They are a background check away from starting over. I don't necessarily feel bad for them, but their family suffers too. That is where I aim my pity. Your anecdotal evidence may be true, but it's irrelevant when we look at the bigger picture.

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