McCain supporters...

Hatuey · 04-27-08, 08:03 PM

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Originally Posted by galenrox

So please don't bull**** me, you were clearly implying that it was evidence of senility (which if it genuinely were you wouldn't have backed away from that assertion, but we both know it isn't at all), and this is completely contradictory to your lamentation about people voting ignorantly based on petty slander. I've made it an effort to be intellectually honest with you, and I expect you to do the same.

So McCain isn't senile?

senile - Definitions from Dictionary.com

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se·nile Audio Help /ˈsinaɪl, -nɪl, ˈsɛnaɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[see-nahyl, -nil, sen-ahyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective

1. showing a decline or deterioration of physical strength or mental functioning, esp. short-term memory and alertness, as a result of old age or disease.
2. of or belonging to old age or aged persons; gerontological; geriatric.

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se·nile Audio Help (sē'nīl', sěn'īl') Pronunciation Key
adj.

1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of old age.
2. Relating to or exhibiting memory loss or mental impairment associated with aging.

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adjective
mentally or physically infirm with age; "his mother was doddering and frail" [syn: doddering]

I'm sure the man is as sharp and healthy as those Al-Qaeda operatives being trained by Iranians. Not like he gets confused on the same issue multiple times or anything.

Hatuey · 04-27-08, 08:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Rightwing86

I don't see why an argument even happens in this thread. The poster said, "What do you support about McCain and his platform?" And then we get people who come in and attack people for answering the question... Do you people have any excuse for your rude behavior? I know this isn't answering the question, but I already answered it. I just think that if this is what politics has come to on this forum... It's quite disappointing.

"RightWing", a "Right Winger" derailed a thread geared towards Right Wingers. You have nobody to blame but the "right wing" on this forum.

independent_thinker2002 · 04-27-08, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

You stated that fact in response to jallman saying:
"No, Hatuey. You don't get to call back the blatant attack you just made now. If he were senile, I am sure that he wouldn't be permitted to run for president. You were trying to say he isn't of sound mind.

It takes age and dignity to be a true statesman. I will support my candidate and leave the Rock Star routine to the younger candidate."

So please don't bull**** me, you were clearly implying that it was evidence of senility (which if it genuinely were you wouldn't have backed away from that assertion, but we both know it isn't at all), and this is completely contradictory to your lamentation about people voting ignorantly based on petty slander. I've made it an effort to be intellectually honest with you, and I expect you to do the same.

Well, if you want to get into it, then we can explore the fact that I brought up. You tried to equate razing part of a city to your roommate forgetting that he owed someone ten bucks. It is a big deal to tell people that you may just raze their neighborhood and then forget about it. Really, I think it was a lame way of backing away from a gaffe. At least I hope it is. If he really forget something that significant, either he is BSing and can't keep his BS straight or he is actually having memory failure.

He said on April 21:

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"We need to go back to have a conversation about what to do: rebuild, tear it down, you know, whatever it is"

Later that day:

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"I don't remember ever saying it."

msnbc.com Video Player

So I think it's a reasonable question. I am not fabricating that he can't remember. That is the fact. He offered it up as his excuse. He can't act all emotionally involved about the situation and then not remember entertaining the possibility of tearing down a neighborhood. There is no good explanation for this.

I never asserted that he was senile. Yes, I responded to jallman's reply to Hatuey. I can see where you thought that I was backing up Hatuey's claim of senility. It was something that hadn't been introduced to the discussion. It does bear mentioning and keeping an eye out for repeat offenses. As we all know, senility and Alzheimer's doesn't happen overnight. Maybe it's my personal experience with Alzheimer's that makes me sensitive to it. I can tell you that the signs were there long before a diagnosis.

Forgive me if I am cynical whenever I hear, "I don't remember" or "I don't recall". I've seen it from Reagan, Libby, and Gonzales and don't believe a single one of them. You have no problem remembering the things I say and you have an excuse to have short term memory loss. No matter what the truth is, it disturbs me that he doesn't remember or won't admit that he mentioned tearing down a neighborhood. Maybe his experience has taught him to say "I don't remember" as a default response when in a sticky situation.

Hatuey · 04-27-08, 09:24 PM

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Originally Posted by galenrox

He said something in passing and didn't remember the wording when confronted with a confrontational question later that week, what evidence do you have that this has anything to do with age? Forgive me, I'm really disappointed to see you reduced to attempting to slander a man for his age over ideological differences.

Pssst. His ideological differences are a bigger issue. I simply take offense to this farce the GOP has put on that the man is not a flip-flopper or entering a state of senility where he simply doesn't remember what does from one day to another. You can not in your right mind justify what he did in Texas or any of the other cataloged episodes of flip flopping McCain has engaged in.

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Can you remember every single word you've said in the last week?

Depends. Are we talking work related? Yes. DP Related? Yes. Are we talking about if I remember every single word I said when engaging my daughter in her kind of gibberish baby-talk? No. But then again I don't expect anybody other then myself to remember whether or not they remember saying they'd tear down a whole neighborhood.

Hatuey · 04-27-08, 09:40 PM

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Originally Posted by galenrox

The reason ethanol is a net polluter now is because of the pollution stemming from the processing of corn or whatever else into ethanol. With profitability comes research, with research comes innovation, in this case, process innovation. More efficient processing leads to less pollution, changing the equilibrium. There's absolutely no contradiction.

But that's not what McCain said and you're further

ing it. He clearly stated what ethanol can not do. Then switched it up when it became politically advantageous. He contradicted himself by saying that ethanol could do what he'd claim it couldn't only a few years before.

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lol, I'm sorry, I didn't know I was speaking for a group of people!

What aspect of my argument do you specifically reject?

Backstabbing of Catholics? Dare I ask, lest I drown in the sensationalism?

He says he compromised his principles, he is the only qualified judge of if he feels as if he did that (and I'm surprised that you'd find the maturity to acknowledge so publicly to be a detriment). There is no contradiction in acknowledging that the confederate flag means different things to different people. And you know I'm right, which is why you didn't go after a single point I made in my argument.

You've

ned this out the debate so badly now it's getting ridiculous. McCain's own words was that HE found the flag to be a symbol of heritage when days before HE agreed to it taken down from the S.C. Statehouse because HE thought it was offensive and a symbol of slavery. You can not possibly argue that you find something to be offensive and at the time you find it offensive. Are you kidding me? He wasn't talking about what others thought of the flag. In both instances he was referring to his opinion of it.

As for the backstabbing of catholics. Texas primary. Hagee & McCain's 4 day love affair. Look it up.

Hatuey · 04-27-08, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

And so that justifies you attempting to slander him for his age? You want to talk about actual ideological issues I will talk to you about ideological issues, but there is no way to excuse this sort of purely partisan attack. I still don't know what you're talking about in Texas, but considering the things you've taken to make a big deal about I can't imagine it's of any actual importance. I also know you're better than this, and it saddens me to think what has brought you down to this style of attack. You think Obama's a better candidate because of what you think he'll do for America, not because you think McCain flip flopped on the confederate flag or any of this **** that I know you know to be petty. You should hold yourself to higher standards.

McCain-Hagee Catholic back stabbing

1. McCain seeks Hagee's endorsement in Texas primary.

Hagee, in 'NYT' This Sunday, Says McCain Sought His Endorsement

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NEW YORK In an interview that will appear in this Sunday's New York Times Magazine, controversial televangelist Rev. John Hagee declares, "It's true that [John] McCain's campaign sought my endorsement."

McCain has attempted to distance himself from some of Hagee's views, much as Barack Obama is doing in relation to Rev. Jeremiah Wright. But unlike McCain, Obama has not stood on stage with Wright and accepted his accolades this year.

2. McCain receives Hagee endorsement before the Texas primary.

McCain Receives Hagee Endorsement - San Antonio News Story - KSAT San Antonio

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Originally Posted by February 27, 2008

At an afternoon press conference, Pastor John Hagee of Cornerstone Church said he was endorsing the Republican front-runner because of his stance on Israel as well as his pro-life ideals.

Hagee also sided with the Arizona senator because of his fight against congressional overspending and his pledge to appoint conservative judges if elected president.

3. McCain distances himself from Hagee AFTER the Texas primary.

Tales from the Trail » Blog Archive » McCain distances himself from evangelical pastor | Blogs | Reuters.com

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ROUND ROCK, Texas - John McCain on Friday distanced himself from evangelical leader John Hagee two days after the Republican presidential front-runner appeared with the controversial preacher to receive his endorsement.

And here is the kicker

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“When he endorses me it does not mean that I endorse everything that he stands for,” McCain said at a news conference. “I don’t have to agree with everyone who endorses my candidacy.”

McCain....YOU asked him to support your candidacy.

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Every single word? If I asked you your exact wording on a random post from 4 days, you could recall EXACTLY what you said without looking it up? Word for word? I don't believe you.

Ah yes move the goal post a little further. Do I remember everything I type word for word? No. Do I remember to that using Lab mode to reduce chromatic aberration is a lot simpler then using Hue/Saturation in RGB? Yes. See you're moving the goal post further and further. I don't remember word for word what I say about everything. Do I make the same mistake more then once when it's job related? You'd be hard pressed to find it.

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Your feigned indignance doesn't fool me, we both know that he was talking about something else, and mentioned bulldozing it as a part of a list of options. I really don't know who you think you're talking to, but you don't need to go down to **** like this with me, we can actually talk about things of substance.

Like I said. Don't play this game that he isn't a senior citizen who is just getting older and older and more and more senile and I won't touch the subject. If we can agree on that then we can focus on the rest of the issues.

independent_thinker2002 · 04-27-08, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

The man finishes the sentence with "whatever it is" and you think it's a sign of senility that he doesn't remember the exact wording of what he said? My roommate forgetting that he agreed to pay a guy $10 is by far a bigger lapse. And you know that, there is no way that you honestly think this is a sign that he might be senile, which is why you denied insinuating that you did in your last post.

First off, I don't know your roommate. He could forget for many reasons but I don't know. If you think that owing someone $10 is equal to discussing the disaster named Katrina and solutions to that, I am left speechless. The man is running for POTUS. Your roommate is running for a six pack. Apples and unicorns man.

Hatuey · 04-27-08, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

So I was right, something that couldn't possibly be interpreted as being of any importance. Like I said man, you should hold yourself to higher standards.

Are you kidding me? McCain ACTIVELY SEEKS the endorsement of an anti-catholic priest and then tries to move himself away from Hagee after he's won the Texas primary but it's not a flip-flop? Specially considering how glad he was that Hagee endorsed him? Are you kidding me?

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That's what we're talking about, John McCain was talking about something and he listed several options in passing. When confronted about whether he mentioned one thing in a list of a series of options mentioned in passing in one of what I can only imagine to be hundreds of conversations he has every day several days before, I haven't moved the goalposts nearly far away enough to how far you're putting them for McCain. This is petty slander, nothing more, and the worst part is that I know you know it. I know how smart you are and that there's no way that you've actually convinced yourself that this **** is indicative of senility or that any of this **** is of any significance in the selecting of the President of the United States of America.

He's not senile, you're just trying to slander him for his age. I really don't know who you think you're talking to, but I don't play these games, this is clearly petty nonsense and I'm not going to lie to you and say that it isn't. Come on man, you used to hate partisanship like this.

Once again, that is not supported in any way by McCain's own words. You refusal to even acknowledge that the man himself said he followed political ambition and not personal beliefs is clear that you were never interested in debating this. You can't have it both ways galenrox. Either he flip-flopped or he's senile for not remembering what he says just 3 days after he says them.

independent_thinker2002 · 04-27-08, 11:20 PM

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Originally Posted by galenrox

He was talking about Katrina, and he mentioned in passing one possibility as a part of a list of options followed by the word "whatever", are you ****ing kidding me? Dude, there is no way you can convince me that you genuinely believe this **** because it's clearly nonsense and there's no way you don't already know that. It was clearly on option in a list of options which was mentioned in passing as a small part of a larger conversation, and you're acting like it was a thesis of a ******* hour long speech! You know this is absurd slander and you're refusing to admit it. I've extended you the respect of intellectual honesty, and it's ridiculous that you're denying me the same respect here.
Why did you try to defend yourself when I first pointed out that you accused him of this? Why did you deny that you were insinuating he was senile when first asked? Come on man, there is no way that we can have actual conversations if you're going to pull this type of ****.

He spent Thursday touring the city. His initial comments were on Monday. He forgot by Thursday. (My quotes were incorrect on the timeline) What exactly is the is the larger conversation? Isn't the conversation what to do about New Orleans? If the man has no plan for the city, was he merely there to do a photo op and look like he is distancing himself from the President? He has attacked Obama for speaking in platitudes, yet where was the beef Thursday? "Never again will this happen." Ok how? Rebuild, tear it down, WHATEVER? WHATEVER?!? Please don't tell me this a fact finding mission 3 years after the tragedy.

So yes, I retract any inferrence that McCain is senile. He is opbviously playing politics with the whole New Orleans deal and said "I don't ever remember saying that." when the media asked him about it. Was he expecting a pass from the media?

He has said that he didn't vote for help for the victims because of pork. Okay, why didn't he introduce his own legislation?

independent_thinker2002 · 04-28-08, 06:52 PM

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Originally Posted by galenrox

He was talking about his plan for the city, but he was clearly at that point in time talking about how we need to be open to a broad array of approaches.

It doesn't sound like a plan when he is looking to brainstorm about the subject. What is his plan for New Orleans?

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Originally Posted by galenrox

Define "playing politics"? What aspect of presidential campaigning do you not consider "playing politics"?

What I mean is that he is trying to portray himself to be "Johnny on the spot" if he were President when that isn't the case. He has been running for a year. He has been speaking plenty about Iraq and Iran but Katrina did more damage in this country than those two countries could ever hope to do. Mother nature is a more imminent threat that terrorism. It's been three years since Katrina. Now, that he has the nomination locked up he wants to look like he is on point. It's phony to me. It reminds me of the whole Texas primary/Hagee endorsement charade. It's an illusion. That's what I mean by playing politics. He is misrepresenting himself. He waited until it was safe to blast Bush. That's not leadership IMO. It smacks of lip service.

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Originally Posted by galenrox

Was there any noticeable lack of legislation passed providing aid to New Orleans that would've necessitated McCain to offer another one?

Well, three years after the hurricane and McCain found rubble for a photo op. People needed help or else the legislation he voted down wouldn't have been put up to a vote.

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Originally Posted by galenrox

Do you really think the problems we face are a product of a lack of symbolic gestures?

I am not sure what you are getting at here. Are you saying that anything else offered to help these people is merely a symbolic gesture?

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