McCain supporters... - Page 5

independent_thinker2002 · 04-27-08, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallman

You're going to call a 5 year evolution in thought that grew with technology and evidence a flip flop? Now you're reeaaally stretching it.

He is wrong about Ethanol. There is no corn pipeline. It takes a gallon of gas to make a gallon of ethanol. It has to be trucked or railed to be processed. It also drives up food costs.

galenrox · 04-27-08, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

Notice how I didn't contest that part of his argument. I contested the part where he obviously had absolutely no clue as to what he was talking about(in bold).

Well maybe you should question how much you know what you're talking about, because ethanol is a net polluter over oil, because of the pollution that happens as a product of production. On the Confederate Flag, it is both a symbol of slavery and a symbol of heritage, depending on who you talk to. To a lot of people the civil war was about slavery, and southern white culture represents all of the brutality, murder, and oppression that came with slavery and then all the **** that happened afterwards. This is clearly a valid belief. There are many other aspects to white southern culture though. There's the belief in freedom from government and all that represents, the belief in self governance (obviously not extended to black people for the majority of American history, but that's another story). It represents both. I think it's absurd to assert that it's at all contradictory to acknowledge both aspects of the symbol.

galenrox · 04-27-08, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

Tell your roommate that I won't be voting for him either.

I just offered up a fact. I didn't say that he was having a "senior moment" like Brit Hume did with the conflation gaffe. It's something to keep an eye on though. Call it blowback from Reagan's "I don't recall" testimony during the Iran-Contra hearings.

You stated that fact in response to jallman saying:
"No, Hatuey. You don't get to call back the blatant attack you just made now. If he were senile, I am sure that he wouldn't be permitted to run for president. You were trying to say he isn't of sound mind.

It takes age and dignity to be a true statesman. I will support my candidate and leave the Rock Star routine to the younger candidate."

So please don't bull**** me, you were clearly implying that it was evidence of senility (which if it genuinely were you wouldn't have backed away from that assertion, but we both know it isn't at all), and this is completely contradictory to your lamentation about people voting ignorantly based on petty slander. I've made it an effort to be intellectually honest with you, and I expect you to do the same.

Rightwing86 · 04-27-08, 08:46 PM

I don't see why an argument even happens in this thread. The poster said, "What do you support about McCain and his platform?" And then we get people who come in and attack people for answering the question... Do you people have any excuse for your rude behavior? I know this isn't answering the question, but I already answered it. I just think that if this is what politics has come to on this forum... It's quite disappointing.

Hatuey · 04-27-08, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

Well maybe you should question how much you know what you're talking about, because ethanol is a net polluter over oil, because of the pollution that happens as a product of production.

Galenrox, you're claiming ethanol net pollutes more then oil. McCain said we should look into it because of it's green house gas effect reduction effect. Contradiction much?

Quote:

On the Confederate Flag, it is both a symbol of slavery and a symbol of heritage, depending on who you talk to. To a lot of people the civil war was about slavery, and southern white culture represents all of the brutality, murder, and oppression that came with slavery and then all the **** that happened afterwards. This is clearly a valid belief. There are many other aspects to white southern culture though. There's the belief in freedom from government and all that represents, the belief in self governance (obviously not extended to black pnd
eople for the majority of American history, but that's another story). It represents both. I think it's absurd to assert that it's at all contradictory to acknowledge both aspects of the symbol.

The spin of you McCain supporters on this issue is just wild. McCain said he personally believes the flag is a symbol of heritage. Days before he called for the removal of the state flag because it's offensive, a symbol of racism and slavery. Either he's a very confused individual or he doesn't know whether he finds something offensive or not. McCain himself admitted to having sacrificed his own principle for personal or a better word political ambition. Are you seriously standing here saying it's not a flip flop? I got a bridge for ya then.

Quote:

When asked by a reporter how he felt about the Confederate flag during a January 12 campaign event, McCain replied: "Personally, I see the flag as symbol of heritage."

The Arizona senator expressed regret for that stance on Wednesday, telling the audience of Republicans: "I feared that if I answered honestly, I could not win the South Carolina primary. So I chose to compromise my principles."

You were saying? He admits to having been dishonest but it's not a flip flop? I guess his backstabbing of Catholics in Texas wasn't a flip flop either.

Hatuey · 04-27-08, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

So please don't bull**** me, you were clearly implying that it was evidence of senility (which if it genuinely were you wouldn't have backed away from that assertion, but we both know it isn't at all), and this is completely contradictory to your lamentation about people voting ignorantly based on petty slander. I've made it an effort to be intellectually honest with you, and I expect you to do the same.

So McCain isn't senile?

senile - Definitions from Dictionary.com

Quote:

se·nile Audio Help /ˈsinaɪl, -nɪl, ˈsɛnaɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[see-nahyl, -nil, sen-ahyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective

1. showing a decline or deterioration of physical strength or mental functioning, esp. short-term memory and alertness, as a result of old age or disease.
2. of or belonging to old age or aged persons; gerontological; geriatric.

Quote:

se·nile Audio Help (sē'nīl', sěn'īl') Pronunciation Key
adj.

1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of old age.
2. Relating to or exhibiting memory loss or mental impairment associated with aging.

Quote:

adjective
mentally or physically infirm with age; "his mother was doddering and frail" [syn: doddering]

I'm sure the man is as sharp and healthy as those Al-Qaeda operatives being trained by Iranians. Not like he gets confused on the same issue multiple times or anything.

Hatuey · 04-27-08, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rightwing86

I don't see why an argument even happens in this thread. The poster said, "What do you support about McCain and his platform?" And then we get people who come in and attack people for answering the question... Do you people have any excuse for your rude behavior? I know this isn't answering the question, but I already answered it. I just think that if this is what politics has come to on this forum... It's quite disappointing.

"RightWing", a "Right Winger" derailed a thread geared towards Right Wingers. You have nobody to blame but the "right wing" on this forum.

independent_thinker2002 · 04-27-08, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

You stated that fact in response to jallman saying:
"No, Hatuey. You don't get to call back the blatant attack you just made now. If he were senile, I am sure that he wouldn't be permitted to run for president. You were trying to say he isn't of sound mind.

It takes age and dignity to be a true statesman. I will support my candidate and leave the Rock Star routine to the younger candidate."

So please don't bull**** me, you were clearly implying that it was evidence of senility (which if it genuinely were you wouldn't have backed away from that assertion, but we both know it isn't at all), and this is completely contradictory to your lamentation about people voting ignorantly based on petty slander. I've made it an effort to be intellectually honest with you, and I expect you to do the same.

Well, if you want to get into it, then we can explore the fact that I brought up. You tried to equate razing part of a city to your roommate forgetting that he owed someone ten bucks. It is a big deal to tell people that you may just raze their neighborhood and then forget about it. Really, I think it was a lame way of backing away from a gaffe. At least I hope it is. If he really forget something that significant, either he is BSing and can't keep his BS straight or he is actually having memory failure.

He said on April 21:

Quote:

"We need to go back to have a conversation about what to do: rebuild, tear it down, you know, whatever it is"

Later that day:

Quote:

"I don't remember ever saying it."

msnbc.com Video Player

So I think it's a reasonable question. I am not fabricating that he can't remember. That is the fact. He offered it up as his excuse. He can't act all emotionally involved about the situation and then not remember entertaining the possibility of tearing down a neighborhood. There is no good explanation for this.

I never asserted that he was senile. Yes, I responded to jallman's reply to Hatuey. I can see where you thought that I was backing up Hatuey's claim of senility. It was something that hadn't been introduced to the discussion. It does bear mentioning and keeping an eye out for repeat offenses. As we all know, senility and Alzheimer's doesn't happen overnight. Maybe it's my personal experience with Alzheimer's that makes me sensitive to it. I can tell you that the signs were there long before a diagnosis.

Forgive me if I am cynical whenever I hear, "I don't remember" or "I don't recall". I've seen it from Reagan, Libby, and Gonzales and don't believe a single one of them. You have no problem remembering the things I say and you have an excuse to have short term memory loss. No matter what the truth is, it disturbs me that he doesn't remember or won't admit that he mentioned tearing down a neighborhood. Maybe his experience has taught him to say "I don't remember" as a default response when in a sticky situation.

galenrox · 04-27-08, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

Well, if you want to get into it, then we can explore the fact that I brought up. You tried to equate razing part of a city to your roommate forgetting that he owed someone ten bucks. It is a big deal to tell people that you may just raze their neighborhood and then forget about it. Really, I think it was a lame way of backing away from a gaffe. At least I hope it is. If he really forget something that significant, either he is BSing and can't keep his BS straight or he is actually having memory failure.

He said on April 21:

Later that day:

msnbc.com Video Player

So I think it's a reasonable question. I am not fabricating that he can't remember. That is the fact. He offered it up as his excuse. He can't act all emotionally involved about the situation and then not remember entertaining the possibility of tearing down a neighborhood. There is no good explanation for this.

I never asserted that he was senile. Yes, I responded to jallman's reply to Hatuey. I can see where you thought that I was backing up Hatuey's claim of senility. It was something that hadn't been introduced to the discussion. It does bear mentioning and keeping an eye out for repeat offenses. As we all know, senility and Alzheimer's doesn't happen overnight. Maybe it's my personal experience with Alzheimer's that makes me sensitive to it. I can tell you that the signs were there long before a diagnosis.

Forgive me if I am cynical whenever I hear, "I don't remember" or "I don't recall". I've seen it from Reagan, Libby, and Gonzales and don't believe a single one of them. You have no problem remembering the things I say and you have an excuse to have short term memory loss. No matter what the truth is, it disturbs me that he doesn't remember or won't admit that he mentioned tearing down a neighborhood. Maybe his experience has taught him to say "I don't remember" as a default response when in a sticky situation.

The man finishes the sentence with "whatever it is" and you think it's a sign of senility that he doesn't remember the exact wording of what he said? My roommate forgetting that he agreed to pay a guy $10 is by far a bigger lapse. And you know that, there is no way that you honestly think this is a sign that he might be senile, which is why you denied insinuating that you did in your last post.

galenrox · 04-27-08, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

So McCain isn't senile?

senile - Definitions from Dictionary.com

I'm sure the man is as sharp and healthy as those Al-Qaeda operatives being trained by Iranians. Not like he gets confused on the same issue multiple times or anything.

He said something in passing and didn't remember the wording when confronted with a confrontational question later that week, what evidence do you have that this has anything to do with age? Can you remember every single word you've said in the last week? Forgive me, I'm really disappointed to see you reduced to attempting to slander a man for his age over ideological differences.