Voidwar

How bout we not pick on any of our own citizens, big businesses, or small households, and kick the Illegals out ? ? ?

The reason I think the OP approach is classist, is because the practicalities of enforcement will tend to over target the largest businesses. I presented my point in the way I did to contrast what people think it is ok to do to a company being quite different from what people approve of doing to their neighbor.

John1234

We can NOT kick them out.
There are 20 million of them.
To even kick out 1 million of them would create a humanitarian crisis.
Can you even imagine 20 million people moving under forced migration?
The death toll would be in the multi millions.

I am as much against illegal aliens as anyone.
But some sense has to be used. These people are after all, "People".
The ONLY way to make them leave is to make them want to leave.
Applying tremendous pressure to the employers is the best and possibly the only way to get that result, short of our economy falling below Mexico's.

Voidwar

False. The current law calls for deportation.

Merely a question of scale and resolve. Simply hire more Border agents and streamline the deportation process with 24 hr courts and judges.

I could not care less. They knew it was illegal when they came here, the hardship their being deported creates for them is part of the punishment.

I don't agree with this speculation.
Not many deportees die in the the custody of border patrol.
If they die upon return to their country of origin, that is a humanitarian failing on the part of their countrymen, not on the part of my nation, which is the initially aggrieved party.

So we have to make America ****tier than Mexico ?

No Thanks.

John1234

Yeah that obviously is working...

This would fix future illegal alien problems.
To remove 20 million people this way would be a project that would require hundreds of thousands of new employees and billions of dollars.

Being completely insensitive and unsympathetic to their situation only does harm to your cause.
It also empowers the liberals that would rather give the illegals a medal.

It is not speculation. 20 million people is not comparable with a few hundred thousand that the border patrol deals with.
You can not move 20 million people.
And when Mexico can not care for their refugee camps and these people suffer, saying its their own fault simply is not good enough.
Regardless of fault, it will still occur.

To get what you want, yes.

Or... we can simply pass harsh rules for anyone that employs one of them, cut off non emergency government funding and aid for them...
And watch them leave on their own in a peaceful, slow, and controlled way that results in few casualties and gives Mexico time to deal with the influx.
When they choose to return home, they return with a plan and they are able to care for themselves to some degree.
But 20 million people, rounded up like animals and thrown into a cluster... will only suffer and die in a country that can not even feed and shelter them.

In the end, what you desire is pointless and self defeating because its never going to happen.
So instead of dreaming about the great Mexican round up, you should focus on something that could get the same result you want, by using methods that actually might come to pass.
If you want them out, focus on something that might really happen and not on a fantasy.

Voidwar

I already addressed that. It is merely a question of scale and resolve.

Not true. Their ongoing and willful violation of the law merits NO sympathy.

They caused all thier own troubles, in an illegal attempt to undercut my countrymen.

I already addressed that. It is merely a question of scale and resolve.

Further, I think that once a serious effort to deport them all is undertaken, and this effort targets the deportations and parallel legal pressure on the support systems these illegals use, (providers of false papers, language help, currency exchange) driving assistance underground and up in price, and many will start to leave on their own.

"Good" enough is not a relevant goal. We are talking about deserved punishment. A better question to ask is "Was it bad enough ?"

Voidwar

Wanted to address this part separately . . .

I don't want to single out just Mexico, but at the same time I realize that Mexico is disproportionately our largest country of origin of illegal immigrants.

That being said, what you describe here, kind of sounds like what the Mexican government, and then the Coyotes did to them, via the mechanism of economic failure, and human smuggling over the long term of their numeric growth.

pass harsh rules
cut off non emergency government funding and aid for them
watch them leave on their own
rounded up like animals and thrown into a cluster

Yawn, what merit is there to this kind of talk ?

What if I do the same to you ?

What you desire is pointless and self defeating because its never going to happen. The employers you propose going after, in the end, are willing to pay for more lobbyists than the envious unpatriotic classists who want to attack them. The businesses / employers have the money, they know how to use it in the political system, and they will buy the right law from the right legislators to make sure they are one step ahead of it.

John1234

Do you know any of your "countrymen" that have been "undercut"?
Because your talking to one right now.
I lost tens of thousands to unlicensed illegal Mexican contractors in a very direct way.

I share 1 thing in common with you. I also want them out.
But I also believe it is people like you that have no sympathy for them that only empower and entrench their position here by infuriating the liberals and human rights groups.
And its also plain morally wrong to remove them in such a way that will cause great suffering.

The only thing that matters here is what our "Realistic" options are.
The great Mexican Round Up is a fantasy.
Its not going to happen, regardless of who wins the election.
And its not going to happen in 4 or 8 or 12 more years either.
So stop fueling your opposition by supporting a fantasy that will never be.
And support something that will work towards the same goal instead.

Making them unwelcome instead of having Americans lined up with cash in their hands, is the best way to accomplish what you want.
It may not be the most direct way, but its a realistic plan.
Controlling our border in addition to making it difficult for them to work will yield a positive effect.

Instead, we have Congressmen saying that we have an "urgent need" for more Mexican workers.
What we have an urgent need for... is putting these people in prison that are making a profit off the backs of the illegals at the cost of screwing the American worker.

Voidwar

plenty

I don't really think you do. People that "want them out" want to hire more border patrol agents and drastically increase and streamline deportations.

Screw these idiots. Grab the center with the fact that its better to enforce your law current law on illegal aliens than threaten your own countrymen, and then simply outvote and ignore the libs.

Mere speculation. As I stated earlier, the average treatment of a deportee does not cause great suffering. Possible suffering that might occur after deportation, is quite simply not on us, but on the country of origin.

As I showed above, I can just as easily dismiss your plan as a fantasy, because big business has more money for lobbyists.

jamesrage

I think it would be cheaper to crack down on the employers who hire illegals than it would be to deport them.I believe that if this country really wanted to we can deport 12-20 million illegals after all we are country that sent men to the moon,won two world wars, wiped out small pox and accomplished man other things surely deporting 12-20 million people would be a small task.Plus the employers are the ones who draw the illegals here,so they should suffer for it.

IF you target the large businesses the smaller businesses will know that no business is immune from the law.PLus larger businesses employ more people


If your neighbor was a running a crack house and bringing up the crime level in your neighborhood wouldn't you want something to be done about that neighbor so that your neighborhood can be safe and peaceful again?

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MC.no.spin

Good post, particularly on how it infuriates liberals to simply want to round the illegals up and throw them out. It's hard to get around the fact that is what I feel should be done, however. Not necessarily doing raids on known places where they are, but at least deporting them when they are discovered through usual means. And NOT catering to them with IDs, voting rights, health care, scholarships, bank accounts, jobs, etc.

If I had lost as much money as you have because of illegals, I certainly would not be voting for a Democrat, who is pushing in the opposite direction to solving the problem.

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The heart of human intelligence is pattern recognition ~ Ray Kurzweill