independent_thinker2002

Kerry wasn't going to pull out of Afghanistan. Nor does his policies equal all democrat's policies.

__________________
☠☠☠☠☠

I am a Tiki Bar Tarte, you wanna mount Le Penseur Bronze

cascadian

An inference by someone else is not an endorsement.


Exactly. If you don't think that why would anyone else?? Bin Laden isn't that dumb.

So it's an "indirect" endorsement now? What is that? As far as I can tell it's a neo-con viewpoint reading into Bin Laden's words and nothing else.

Of course to you Bush was our savior from Bin Laden, but you haven't demonstrated that Bin Laden sees a significant difference.

LOL, and Hitler was a vegetarian therefore... vegetarians are nazis!

If you really thought Kerry was going to get us out of Iraq, I have a bridge to sell you. You have to demonstrate what Bin Laden thought of Kerry not what you think of Kerry

Actually you just called it an "indirect endorsement". Regardless, you've advanced two different arguments as to why it's an endorsment and they conflict with each other.
Yeah I know it's not like a security threat would make people nervous about changing leaders would it? It's incredibly obvious how it played into Bush's hands. Once again, how dumb do you think Bin Laden is?

__________________
"Fear is the mind killer."
~Bene Gesserit

aquapub

You're really barking up the wrong tree here. Trying to argue that Kerry, one of the most far left Senators in existence, wasn't necessarily in line with Democrat policy positions is laughable. Even more hilariously, your argument also admits, in effect, that Democrat policies benefit Bin Laden. I'm glad we finally see eye to eye on something.

And Kerry didn't have to be pledged to pulling out of Afghanistan, the war Democrats started trashing and undermining two weeks after voting for it (until it could be used to undermine the next war they voted for in Iraq), in order for his policies to advance Bin Laden's interests more.

Finally, the point here is that Bin Laden had the same assessment about the effects of Democrat policies as Republicans did-that al Qaida gained the most from a Democrat President. Enough said.

__________________
http://www.patrioticunderground.com/

independent_thinker2002

We can't have an honest debate if we aren't talking about reality. Have a nice day.

__________________
☠☠☠☠☠

I am a Tiki Bar Tarte, you wanna mount Le Penseur Bronze

aquapub

You're splitting hairs. "It doesn't matter that Bin Laden promised terrorist attacks on us right before Election Day if we didn't vote in a way that reversed Bush's policies, he didn't say the words, 'I endorse Kerry,' so it wasn't an endorsement!"

You are responding to a point no one ever made. The notion that Bin Laden would stop fighting us if Kerry won was your lame straw man fallacy introduced when I pointed out that Bin Laden knew how much he had to gain from a Kerry presidency.

Yes, since Bin Laden released a tape just before Election 2004 demanding that American voters reverse Bush's policies without saying the words, "vote for Kerry," his endorsement was indirect. This isn't rocket science, and pointlessly invoking the mindless liberal spook label, "neo-con" won't win this argument for you.

I don't need to demonstrate that. My point here is that Bin Laden issued death threats for those who won't support reversing Bush's policies, and he did it right before Election 2004, and since Kerry was the guy promising to do that on virtually everything Bush had done to combat al Qaida since 9/11, obviously, he was endorsing Kerry.

Yeah, how silly of me to think it's noteworthy that Bin Laden endorses Democrats, spews their rhetoric on a range of issues, and condemns them when they don't surrender fast enough. Bin Laden knows which party advances his interests at every turn.

One candidate resists the efforts of your jihadists, the other blames America's willingness to fight back against Islamic savagery for the actions of your jihadists, trashes America's troops and calls for surrendering Iraq to your jihadists as quickly as possible. Hmmm...Who do you root for?

Nope. My argument all along has been that Bin Laden endorsed Kerry...because he issued death threats to America right before Election Day, demanding that we reverse Bush's policies, which could only be done by voting for Kerry. Try again.

Who says that tape made anyone vote differently at all? Of all the polls and surveys I've seen on it, nobody was swayed. If nobody was swayed, then your argument is invalid that Bin Laden would have to be dumb to try to use a threat like that to get Kerry elected. At worst, his endorsement of Kerry was ineffective. And Bin Laden wouldn't be the first smart person to be perplexed by American voting tendencies.

__________________
http://www.patrioticunderground.com/

aquapub

The only thing keeping us from that is your off-topic smears and avoidance of the debate.

__________________
http://www.patrioticunderground.com/

cascadian

Nope it's quite reasonable to infer all kinds of things. That doesn't mean the inference was the intent of Bin Laden however.

Arguing Bin Laden had something gain from Kerry being president and saying he endorsed him are different things. Keep in mind we're talking about Osama's point of view not yours.

LOL, no you don't have to do anything, but that would actually make your argument sensible and possibly even convincing.

Your ideas about Kerry don't match up with his platform.

Wait, are they "indirect endorsements" or endorsements? And which other democrats are you talking about now?

If that's been your point all along, then the content of you original attempt to back up your argument is largely meaningless. It's becoming clear that you didn't understand the content of your cite outside of "Osama endorsed Kerry!!111"

And you wouldn't be the first person to be wrong about Bin Laden's intentions and motivations.

__________________
"Fear is the mind killer."
~Bene Gesserit

aquapub

For those of you sensible enough to be outraged by this open, deliberate undermining of US anti-terror policies, there is now legislation for you to consider supporting:

Democracy Project: Democracy Project

__________________
http://www.patrioticunderground.com/

aquapub

Welcome to willfully blind, intellectually dishonest hairsplitting 101.

No other explanation makes sense. What else could Bin Laden possibly have intended when making his last minute Election 2004 death threats against American voters demanding that we reverse Bush's policies? You think that might have been pro-Bush or Bush neutral? What would be the purpose?

And? The reason I point out how much he had to gain is because you misrepresented my argument as being that Bin Laden would stop fighting us if we elected Kerry. You presented a straw man fallacy, and then when I clarified that it is not that Bin Laden would stop fighting us, just that he had so much more to gain by a Kerry presidency, you acted like I was claiming that his potential gains from a Kerry presidency were what constituted him endorsing Kerry.

You've repeatedly misstated my arguments and slowed this debate to a crawl. Please try to keep up.

My argument doesn't require establishing that Bin Laden saw dramatic differences between Kerry and Bush, just that he saw a path of less resistence for his operation with Kerry.

The platforms of Democrats rarely match up with the actions of Democrats, especially in close proximity to any event that leaves the public wanting to see something that at least looks like patriotism from their leaders-like sending our military into another country. Besides, Kerry wasn't in favor of putting the UN in charge of Iraq? Kerry wasn't constantly bashing and demoralizing our troops, etc? Why do you presume that the only way Bin Laden could see Kerry advancing his interests more were if Kerry were pledging immediate and full surrender?

If you have a car and that car is red, do you have to refer to it as your red car every time or can you sometimes just call it your car? The endorsement is indirect, which doesn't require constantly calling it indirect.

The other Democrats I'm referring to are the ones he chastised for failing to surrender Iraq quickly enough.

Yes, I wasn't bent on which particular source I used to confirm it, as long as it was something from Lexis Nexis. I remembered that Bin Laden endorsed Kerry and went looking for articles that mentioned it. I had no idea about all this other stuff you brought up.

The difference here being that I can demonstrate that I'm right about his intentions, whereas most foreigners still cannot even figure out why they were wrong about American voters re-electing Bush.

__________________
http://www.patrioticunderground.com/

aquapub

I'm starting a new poll on this legislation introduced to strip Carter of his federal tax dollars since he's decided to use it to openly and deliberately thwart US anti-terror policies.

Any further posts you have on this topic should be made there.

__________________
http://www.patrioticunderground.com/