aquapub

Wrong. We could arrange peace with the Fatah Party, as we've done many times before, leaving Syria out of the picture while killing off Hamas. No need to repeat historical blunders and appease the aggressor.

And he should keep doing whatever he's doing, because clearly it's working.

All Carter has done is undermine the US and Israel at every turn while appeasing and emboldening all our enemies and proving that Democrat policies don't work.

We had sent Hamas one unified signal for years now: "don't expect to get what you want by mass-murdering innocent civilians." Carter has undone that. You don't waste your time doing that with aggressors, especially terrorists. It's called appeasement and it never works. Look it up under "failed policies from all of human history."

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cascadian

Here it is on the MEMRI site:

bolding mine

Somehow I don't think that if Kerry carried New York, that Al Qaida wouldn't attack it. What do you think?

Hmmm...
He doesn't seem all that concerned with Bush or rushing to differentiate the two.

If his intent was to scare people into voting Kerry why is he so cryptic?

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Slainte

That would bring peace to Gaza and Southern Israel how?

Who's "we"? America has never been at war with Fatah or the Palestinians. The Israeli's have never made peace with the Palestinians; Fatah or Hamas.

Hamas haven't been killed off and they won't be killed off by ignoring them.

Israel will one day need to make peace with Syria too, all she needs to do is go back to '67 borders.

Hamas are a political, social and military organisation, they go pretty deep into Palestinian society, they're there for the long haul, its more about moderating their position than ignoring them. That's sort of what Carter is doing, he's meeting one of the more moderate members, a guy who's studied at major European and American universities and a guy who would be open to some practical cooperation; like a cease-fire for example. Pretty much everyone accepts that Hamas aren't going to go away that's why they've been given an avenue to come back into negotiations, by renouncing violence, recognising Israel and abiding by past agreements. IMO Hamas will eventually end up sort of agreeing to one - the renouncing violence part with a cease fire and then an independent agreement will be worked out covering the other two. Draw a line under Oslo and the road map, say ithey've failed then start again.

He negotiated the most succesful peace agreement there to date...

What's anyone else done?

This is moronic, demonstratably false and a little boring...

Appeasement? That involves concessions, Carter doesn't have anything he can actually give them. What he's doing is called diplomacy "building bridges" etc and it's a hell of a lot smarter than "We don't talk to evil", "You're either with us or against us" policies the Bush admin has adopted.

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independent_thinker2002

Where has bin Laden asked Americans to vote Democrat? Source please.

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aquapub

So if a non-partisan, non-profit group correctly translates a message from Bin Laden the same way an Islamist group does, then the message is an Islamist commentary rather than a correct translation?

Right, but what matters here is that Bin Laden spews Democrat policies and endorses Democrat candidates.

How else could you interpret him warning us right before a presidential election that we will get attacked if we stick with Bush's policies?

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DivineComedy

Do not forget the fifth column, we know votes for the Democratic Party:

"Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan said that presidential candidate Barack Obama is the 'hope of the entire world' that the U.S. will change for the better."
Farrakhan Praises Obama as ‘Hope of Entire World’ - America’s Election HQ

July 1997, South Movement, "the path of Jihad and proper action": "Those who desire to face up to the Zionists conspiracies, intransigence, and aggressiveness must proceed towards the advance centers of capabilities in the greater Arab homeland and to the centers of the knowledge, honesty and sincerity with whole heartiness if the aim was to implement a serious plan to save others from their dilemma or to rely on those capable centers; well-known for their positions regarding the enemy, to gain precise concessions from it with justified maneuvers even if such centers including Baghdad not in agreement with those concerned, over the objectives and aims of the required maneuvers." (On the 29th anniversary of Iraq's national day (the 17th of July 1968 revolution). President Saddam Hussein made an important comprehensive and nation wide address) President Saddam's speech on July 17 1997

December 1997: "'If the United Nations fails to respond to the Organization of the Islamic Conference (meeting in Tehran) then the Muslim world must act and defy these sanctions,' Farrakhan told an audience of union representatives in the Iraqi capital." (Louis Farrakhan) South News Dec 12 1997

September 2001: "Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General...David Muller, South Movement, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia"
Workers World Oct. 4, 2001: Join a new anti-war coalition

September, 16th, 2001: "Whenever a nation becomes great and powerful by God’s Permission, as America has; whenever a nation becomes the undisputed ruler of the world, as America has, by Allah’s Permission; when a nation becomes the only remaining superpower, having the power to destroy other nations and people by the tens of thousands and millions, as Allah has permitted America the power to do, and that nation then has a spiritual lapse and begins to sink into moral decline, the Qur’an teaches that Allah (God) raises a messenger, but he raises that messenger from among the poor and the abject to guide and to warn the great and the powerful.

Allah (God) knows that the powerful will not heed a warning coming from their ex-slave or from the weak or from the abject, so the Qur’an teaches that Allah (God) then seizes that nation with distress and affliction, that it might humble itself. For only in humility can the proud and the powerful heed the Guidance of God, which is mercy and grace from Himself. Allah (God) used this tragedy, hopefully, to bring a great nation to Himself." (Louis Farrakhan)
Response to 9/11 Attacks

"Some voices have risen on the part of some peoples, journalists, writers, and, in a very restricted way, the voices of those who are preparing themselves, in the shadow, to replace the rulers there. Nevertheless, the latter are still hesitant voices that deal with the situation in the light of the balance of interests of the posts they expect to occupy, and of the influence of the centers of power." (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

*****

Let us not forget the aid and comfort to the enemy of the Oslo accords:

"Palestinian Cabinet member Saeb Erakat said Wednesday that the United States violated the Oslo peace accords when it apprehended Abbas.

Erakat pointed to the Oslo accords, signed by Israel and the PLO and witnessed by the United States, Russia, Jordan, Egypt, Norway and the European Union, of which Italy is a member.

That agreement specified that no member of the Palestine Liberation Organization will be arrested or brought to court for any action that happened before September 13, 1993, the day the first Oslo accord was signed, Erakat said."
CNN.com - Italy wants mastermind of Achille Lauro hijacking - Apr. 16, 2003

I can imagine the "liberal" Democrats and Israelis offering the same deal to Hamas too:

“Howard Dean has said that Hamas’ soldiers—no one has ever called Hamas soldiers before. Howard Dean has said we don’t take sides in the Middle East. We took sides in 1948. Israel’s our ally. We always knew that. We can’t have a president who is conducting American foreign policy by press release clarification, and we’re certainly not going to beat George Bush that way.” (John Kerry Meet the Press (NBC News) - Sunday, January 11, 2004)

*****

As an ancient Persian once stuffed a general as a warning...Yasser Arafat's head should have been cut off his live body, and picked in pork fat, with his Peace Price shoved between his teeth, and the jar put on display.

Instead of "isolating groups like Hamas" we should be killing them:

"Hey Israel if you happen to see the spiritual leader of Hamas anywhere kill him too!" (posted October 05, 2003 06:28 PM)


Carter is a puke.

aquapub

Well, it would require waiting until they're back in power, which is only a matter of time.

We're talking about attempting to broker peace. America has done that before, although it's never lasted, but never with Hamas. Fatah has always been in charge as far as I know.

Right. Hamas will be isolated and driven from power by ignoring them.

It's a testament to how fruitless it is to negotiate with Islamic terrorists that even Carter, the appeaser who gives the enemy everything they want, still cannot work with them.

Then demonstrate it. Because from where I sit, he has accomplished nothing, aside from things like helping bribe North Korea while they went nuclear.

History says otherwise. We've "built bridges" with terrorists and other aggressors before, and with a nearly 100% failure rate, I'd say "smarter" isn't exactly the word that best describes it.

And yes, appeasement. Carter goes to the savages, asks them what they want, and then pressures the people they're mass-murdering to give it to them. He's an APPEASEMENT broker.

Asked and answered. Scroll back.

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cascadian

aquapub ,
First of all you are sidestepping the fact that you presented a quote that appears to be from Bin Laden but it is not. Your source is either
A: stupid and couldn't read MEMRI's article correctly
B: trying to manipulate you to believe something that isn't true

I would advise you to keep a closer eye on your sources.


You're assuming that they are in fact non-partisan and that they translated it correctly. This is under debate
You presented a quote from an Islamist site. It was neither MEMRI's translation nor the words of Osama Bin Laden as you claimed.

Once again you haven't shown that he's endorsed anyone.

Big events like that attract attention. Kerry supposedly actually credited his loss to the Bin Laden tape. How dumb do you think Bin Laden is? "Everyone there hates me so my endorsement will carry my candidate to victory!!" right.

Furthermore he mentions Sweden as a nation that they didn't attack because of it's policies. So saying that a nation that emulated sweden would guarantee it's safety makes sense.

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aquapub

If it is disputed that the translation I was citing is accurate, fine. Then all you have to do is refute the other 80 or so articles on Lexis Nexis that independently confirm (unless you're claiming that MEMRI is the only interpreter for the entire newsmedia) the tape tore into Bush's policies and warned that al qaida would attack if we continued such policies. Like I said, Bin Laden stopped short of saying, "Please vote for John Kerry," but it was obvious Kerry was the only one capable of delivering what Bin Laden was demanding, and thus was widely interpreted as a Bin Laden endorsement for Kerry.

Right. THAT would be stupid, which is why Bin Laden stopped short of saying, "please vote for Kerry."

Right, and who was the only candidate that was going to abandon Bush's policies in exchange for something more like Swedens? Exactly. That's why it was widely taken, rightly, as an endorsement for Kerry.

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chevydriver1123

Carter was a very bad president (according to my dad, since Im only 23) but he is an alright humanitarian but seriously this is a really retarded move on his part. Its just common sense, you dont talk to someone who wants to kill you, you kill them before they try to put you on Ice. Carter would have a better chance convincing Chavez that capitalism is good than convincing Hamas that terrorism is wrong.

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