Hatuey

I've always thought understanding carried a lot more weight then hearing. I'm just saying. I mean I hear people talking in German. Do I understand what they're talking about?

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Is Intolerant Because He Won't Let The Intolerant Run Other People's Lives.

Navy Pride

My question is how long do democrats keep giving Obama a pass for his speaking gaffes?

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http://www.swiftvets.com/

vetsforfreedom.org

Zyphlin

Much like you critizing people for possibly expecting people to be proud of the same thing as you....

...why do you expect people to view whats important to them in a candidate and how the pesronal views and philosophies of a candidate and those close to them may affect their voting.

Why is it not okay for one person to expect someone to think like them, but its okay for you to expect people to think like you?

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Obama Wins. Time to reach for the new American Dream: "Strive for Mediocrity, avoid success, get free crap"

rivrrat

I don't see what the big deal is. I've yet to be "really proud" of my country as an adult. We haven't done anything, IMO, to be "really proud" of in my lifetime. /shrug

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Hatuey

What an amazing counter argument. In line with the "You're a bigot because you're intolerant to bigotry!" argument - Sure you're allowed to your opinion. Just don't expect people to not find it ridiculous and expose such idiocy for what it is or to point out the fact that not everybody is a flag waving retard. I don't expect ANYONE to think like me. Which is why I point out what I believe are the flaws in the arguments & chinks in their armor. If I'm right about them and they see them then it's fine. If I'm wrong about them and they don't see it then that's fine too. Just don't expect me to stop pointing out such flaws .

Navy Pride

Are you from the USA?

rivrrat

Of course I am.

Hatuey

How can this be! You're an American and you have nothing to be proud about in your adult life!?! What about the massive amounts of tax dollars we've thrown at countries to save themselves? What about all the right wing dictators we supported in South America? What about helping the poor Africans who are still to this day for the most part living in anywhere from extreme poverty to moderate poverty!? What about those 10 minutes of 9/11 when we were all brothers that were used to fool us into a ridiculous war!?!? You aren't proud of any of these things!?! Shame on you! You're soooo anti-American for having the opinion that most of what's happened in America for the last 20 years or so has come with anywhere from bad to horrible consequences or just plain neutrality where the problem stays and doesn't get better or worse. I mean seriously rivrrat. Your opinion isn't wanted in this country if you aren't waving a flag whenever the 4th of July rolls around. Shame on you for being prouder in your own achievements then those of America!!

Zyphlin

Nothing wrong with poniting out arguments. It simply appeared to me though that you were not just pointing out the flaws in his argument, but arguing against a method of political choice he was making and advocating for...while then advocating for that same method of political choice but with different criteria.

It'd be like saying...

"I believe that the rich aren't paying their fare share and need to take on more of the tax burden. Candidate A's wife talks about how much class warefare goes on, which I take to mean she's simply using political speak to say 'lay off the rich'. Therefore, I question Candidate A's possible philosophies concerning the rich and how they may affect his policies."

only in this case.

"I believe that America is a good country and its traditions should be continued and preserved. Obama's wife talks about how she's for the first time really proud of her country, which I take to mean that she's not been proud of the things I believe have been good things and good traditions our country has had. Therefore, I question Obama's possible philosophies concerning American traditions and ideals, and how they may affect his policies."

While I may think that is a bad thing to judge if you're going to vote for a candidate or not on, i don't think the general template of reasoning is necessarily a bad template.

Hatuey

I don't push my ways of reasoning on to others. But if I find theirs to have flaws and chinks in it then I'll tell them so. They have to right to their opinion and I have an opinion of their opinion. Imposing your arguments/beliefs/whatever is a far cry from pointing out the flaws in the arguments of others. Example. I point out the flaws in some Sharia laws. I say Islam is wrong and that's it. The first one is pointing out what I believe in wrong with their beliefs. The second is imposing my beliefs unto them.