It's The Reaction Stupid! - Page 4

conman · 04-16-08, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

Wrong. You gave examples of what you're proud of as an American. None of which has anything to do with what Michelle Obama said.

Good lord. I am simply showing that there should have been some time in the past 20+ years that she could have held her head high as an American. Come on you can't be serious at this point.

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MOMMY MOMMY! He doesn't like what I like! WHY MOMMY WHY!

Awesome retort.

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Good Flying Spaghetti Monster. I'll ask you this twice because you seem to be fond of strawmen.

Is saying : "I have never eaten an apple" the same as saying "This is the first time that I've eaten an apple in my adult life.

It's funny to watch you be so intellectually dishonest and call what other people are saying

- Really it is. It's like a mentally disabled person calling normal people "retards". Honestly it is. You keep saying that Michelle Obama said she's never been proud of her country and this claim has been blown away. Then you say "How can she possibly not be proud of the same things I am!" - Your feigned outrage is a joke.

In the context she used the word "really" in, it makes no difference. Really is an unnecessary word that is overused in the English language. It means nothing.

niftydrifty · 04-16-08, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

I also would question how you can believe thought that someone who has lived 26 years of her adult life willingly within the United States honestly could not be proud of her country, be it the government of the country as a whole, in some way shape or form during that 26 years.

you said "could not be proud..."

what she actually said was that she was "really proud" for the first time.

niftydrifty · 04-16-08, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conman

Really is an unnecessary word that is overused in the English language. It means nothing.

hmmm. really?

conman · 04-16-08, 11:57 AM

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Originally Posted by niftydrifty

hmmm. really?

This is a different context than how Michelle Obama used it, and what we have been referring to until now.

She used it to accent the word proud. This is what is overused and unnecessary.

You are using it in place of saying "Seriously?" Totally different context, and meaning for that matter.

Hatuey · 04-16-08, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

To be fair, her "adult life is 26" years.

This spans both republican presidents, and democratic presidents. This has spanned republican legislatures and democratic legislatures.

Are you saying the road our country has gone down in the last 20 years or so is something to be proud of?

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We have minorites put onto our highest court and get elected or appointed to some of the highest points of the government.

So wait...she should be proud that America is doing what it's SUPPOSED to do? You know actually BE the land of equality? Even though this equality is often accused of being affirmative action?

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We have given uncounted amounts of aid over those 3 decades of her adult life to people abroad and within this country.

And yet the world is in shambles today because none of this aid has been put to good use. No real change has been accomplished by all the money we've funneled into Colombia/Iraq or Africa. Or do you think anything significant has been accomplished in the world? I should be proud that tax dollars were funneled into every spot of the world our government felt like saving? Sorry that just doesn't fly.

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We have stood up to a number of oppressive regimes and worked against a number of genocidal movements.

Most of them we actively supported or were quiet when it was convenient. Pursuing American interests is nothing to be proud of or ashamed of. It's doing what needs to get done for the most part. Kind of like "I WORK!" Yeah but thats because you need to work. I don't take pride in taking care of my kid. That's what I'm SUPPOSED to do. See it yet?

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We have helped as a country in the fight agaisnt aids and poverty the world over.

And yet Africa has 63% of all AIDS cases(and climbing) while severe poverty is obvious to anybody who's been to South America or even our neighbors in Mexico.

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These are just a few of the more "non-partisan" things off the top of my head, in very broad strokes.

All of which have been feeble attempts at providing solutions to problems the world cares about when Bono is around. Most of these issues you're talking about have so many issues revolving around them that have many other issues surrounding them.

Zyphlin · 04-16-08, 12:00 PM

Since you wish to speak in context, there's two ways to hear that.

"For the first time, I am really happy"...as in...for the first time I am happy in a very large way.

"For the first time, I am really happy"...as in...for the first time I am actually honestly happy.

"Really" is commonly used, in that sentence structure, in both fashions.

Thus how this issue can creep up. Its really pretty easy to hear that sentence and take two different meanings from it.

Zyphlin · 04-16-08, 12:05 PM

Then in that case Hautey, perhaps she honestly has never been proud of her Country before.

Its perfectly he right to be such.

And its perfectly acceptable for people who ARE proud of the United States and/or its people for whatever reasons over the past 20 years to be off put due to that comment, and question the character of the woman and as such someone choosing to spend his life with her.

If that is her honest belief, and perception of the country, that is fine. But generally, all voting is is choosing someone that most closely potentially matches your beliefs and perception of what you'd like for your country. As such, it is not unreasonable to say that if someone seemingly does not agree with you about what you view as "Good" and proud things the Country, as a government or an overall entity, has done over the past few decade then you would very much question what kind of things they...or in this case, someone that has chosen to spend a life with her...would do in regards to the countries acts.

Hatuey · 04-16-08, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

Since you wish to speak in context, there's two ways to hear that.

"For the first time, I am really happy"...as in...for the first time I am happy in a very large way.

"For the first time, I am really happy"...as in...for the first time I am actually honestly happy.

"Really" is commonly used, in that sentence structure, in both fashions.

Thus how this issue can creep up. Its really pretty easy to hear that sentence and take two different meanings from it.

Not really. I understood what she meant and didn't try to make more of it. Just like when Ron Paul said he'd take Duke's money and put it to good use - I didn't read it as "he's a nazi!" but then again thats just me. I tend to read what people say instead of what I want them to say.

Zyphlin · 04-16-08, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

Not really. I understood what she meant and didn't try to make more of it. Just like when Ron Paul said he'd take Duke's money and put it to good use - I didn't read it as "he's a nazi!" but then again thats just me. I tend to read what people say instead of what I want them to say.

You're equating hearing a sentence, and understanding the literal words in it in two seperate ways....

...to hearing a sentence, and undrestanding it as a completely different statement and completely different words?

(paraphrasing)

"First time I'm really proud of my country" .... "First time I'm really proud of my country"

And

"I'll put his money to good use" .... "I'm a nazi!"

?

Hatuey · 04-16-08, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

Then in that case Hautey, perhaps she honestly has never been proud of her Country before.

Example. Hatuey is proud when at 16 reads a book about how his country finally embraced equality in the 60s. When he turns 22 he reads another book and realizes that this equality has come with AA and programs where you're rewarded for being dark and not for how much your abilities are worth. Hatuey is no longer proud of the "achievements" by this equality.

Example 2. Hatuey is really proud when he reads a book at 16 about how America managed to keep the world safe for 60 years. At age 22 he realizes that most of this safety has come with a myriad of back door deals & support of horrible right wing dictators. Hatuey is no longer 'really' proud of America.

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Its perfectly he right to be such.

And its perfectly acceptable for people who ARE proud of the United States and/or its people for whatever reasons over the past 20 years to be off put due to that comment, and question the character of the woman and as such someone choosing to spend his life with her.

If that is her honest belief, and perception of the country, that is fine. But generally, all voting is is choosing someone that most closely potentially matches your beliefs and perception of what you'd like for your country. As such, it is not unreasonable to say that if someone seemingly does not agree with you about what you view as "Good" and proud things the Country, as a government or an overall entity, has done over the past few decade then you would very much question what kind of things they...or in this case, someone that has chosen to spend a life with her...would do in regards to the countries acts.

I don't expect people to be proud of the things I am. I'm proud of my family, my life and MY achievements. I don't have to by any means to be proud of whatever has an American sticker on it. I'm judging the candidates based on the way I believe they're going to lead this country and whether or not it is relevant to what I want for this country. Not on how much patriotism they can ship out.