While Israel's critics frequently accuse Israel of imposing "collective punishment" against the Palestinian population, they ignore the reality that terrorist organizations such as Hamas regularly engage in collective punishment against the Palestinian population.

Four recent examples:

On February 8, 2008, Haaretz revealed, "At least 10 trucks with humanitarian aid sent to the Gaza Strip by the Jordanian Red Crescent Society were confiscated by Hamas police shortly after the trucks entered the territory on Thursday evening, according to aid officials in Jerusalem."

On April 9, 2008, Israel's Foreign Ministry provided the following background information on a Palestinian terrorist attack against the Nahal Oz fuel terminal:

Shortly after 3pm on April 9th, Palestinian terrorists fired a barrage of mortar bombs in the area of Kibbutz Nahal Oz while a squad of Palestinian terrorists from the Gaza Strip penetrated into Israeli territory. The terrorists murdered two Israeli workers at the Nahal Oz fuel terminal, Oleg Lipson, 37 and Lev Cherniak, 53.

The attack was aimed at a terminal for the transfer of fuel and gas to the Gaza Strip. Indeed, the Nahal Oz terminal is the only source of fuel for the civilian Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip. It is run by the Israeli fuel supplier Dor Energy, and adjoins the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip, just north of the Karni crossing.

The Nahal Oz terminal supplies millions of liters of gasoline and diesel for electricity and transportation, as well as gas for cooking. Every week, the terminal delivers about 2.2 million liters of industrial fuel for Gaza City's electrical power plant, 75,400 liters of gasoline and 800,000 liters of diesel fuel. Immediately prior to the attack, the latest delivery of European Union-funded fuel for Gaza's main power station had just been completed.

The attack against the Nahal Oz terminal constitutes an assault against the sole fuel-energy pipeline for the people of the Gaza Strip. This attack aptly illustrates the cynicism of Hamas and the other terrorist organizations, who with their own hands tried to sever the central fuel lifeline of the residents of Gaza.

On the one hand, Palestinian and other interested parties in the Strip complain of the difficult situation, while on the other, Palestinian terrorists attack the main source of civilian energy.

While this is one of the more tragic attacks on a Gazan terminal, this is not the first time a humanitarian crossing has been assailed. These crossings have been frequent targets of mortar bombs and other attacks. The April 9th terror incident was an intentional assault on one of the central sites of humanitarian cooperation between Israelis and Palestinians...

On April 10, 2008, The Washington Post reported, Today, The Washington Post reported, "Khuzundar [Mahmoud al-Khuzundar, head of the Gaza Strip's Fuel Suppliers' Association] said the Hamas-controlled government in Gaza has been siphoning off nearly 30 percent of all incoming fuel before its distribution to petrol stations."

On April 11, 2008, Haaretz reported, "Hamas seizes half the fuel Israel sends to the Gaza Strip and uses it in part for its military wing's vehicles, Israeli and Palestinian Authority officials said Thursday."

Originally Posted by donsutherland1 While Israel's critics frequently accuse Israel of imposing "collective punishment" against the Palestinian population, they ignore the reality that terrorist organizations such as Hamas regularly engage in collective punishment against the Palestinian population.

Professors Marjorie Cohn and Richard Falk, are two who all but completely ignore these realities while charging Israel with collective punishment time and again. Mr. Falk, who will being working on behalf of the UN Human Rights Council, recently made news stories in his being barred from entry into Israel.

Originally Posted by donsutherland1 While Israel's critics frequently accuse Israel of imposing "collective punishment" against the Palestinian population, they ignore the reality that terrorist organizations such as Hamas regularly engage in collective punishment against the Palestinian population. Four recent examples: On February 8, 2008, Haaretz revealed, "At least 10 trucks with humanitarian aid sent to the Gaza Strip by the Jordanian Red Crescent Society were confiscated by Hamas police shortly after the trucks entered the territory on Thursday evening, according to aid officials in Jerusalem." On April 9, 2008, Israel's Foreign Ministry provided the following background information on a Palestinian terrorist attack against the Nahal Oz fuel terminal: Shortly after 3pm on April 9th, Palestinian terrorists fired a barrage of mortar bombs in the area of Kibbutz Nahal Oz while a squad of Palestinian terrorists from the Gaza Strip penetrated into Israeli territory. The terrorists murdered two Israeli workers at the Nahal Oz fuel terminal, Oleg Lipson, 37 and Lev Cherniak, 53. The attack was aimed at a terminal for the transfer of fuel and gas to the Gaza Strip. Indeed, the Nahal Oz terminal is the only source of fuel for the civilian Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip. It is run by the Israeli fuel supplier Dor Energy, and adjoins the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip, just north of the Karni crossing. The Nahal Oz terminal supplies millions of liters of gasoline and diesel for electricity and transportation, as well as gas for cooking. Every week, the terminal delivers about 2.2 million liters of industrial fuel for Gaza City's electrical power plant, 75,400 liters of gasoline and 800,000 liters of diesel fuel. Immediately prior to the attack, the latest delivery of European Union-funded fuel for Gaza's main power station had just been completed. The attack against the Nahal Oz terminal constitutes an assault against the sole fuel-energy pipeline for the people of the Gaza Strip. This attack aptly illustrates the cynicism of Hamas and the other terrorist organizations, who with their own hands tried to sever the central fuel lifeline of the residents of Gaza. On the one hand, Palestinian and other interested parties in the Strip complain of the difficult situation, while on the other, Palestinian terrorists attack the main source of civilian energy. While this is one of the more tragic attacks on a Gazan terminal, this is not the first time a humanitarian crossing has been assailed. These crossings have been frequent targets of mortar bombs and other attacks. The April 9th terror incident was an intentional assault on one of the central sites of humanitarian cooperation between Israelis and Palestinians... On April 10, 2008, The Washington Post reported, Today, The Washington Post reported, "Khuzundar [Mahmoud al-Khuzundar, head of the Gaza Strip's Fuel Suppliers' Association] said the Hamas-controlled government in Gaza has been siphoning off nearly 30 percent of all incoming fuel before its distribution to petrol stations." On April 11, 2008, Haaretz reported, "Hamas seizes half the fuel Israel sends to the Gaza Strip and uses it in part for its military wing's vehicles, Israeli and Palestinian Authority officials said Thursday."

Red_Dave,

Nowhere in my post did I sanction the deliberate application of collective punishment. Given that Israel provides a rigorous due process mechanism and has taken much care to ensure the continued flow of humanitarian assistance into the Gaza Strip, I do not believe Israel is deliberately engaging in collective punishment of the Palestinians. Hamas, by stealing oil and confiscating humanitarian aid, is doing so, as such acts are wholly unnecessary and entirely inconsistent with the purposes of such assistance.

Originally Posted by donsutherland1 Red_Dave, Nowhere in my post did I sanction the deliberate application of collective punishment. Given that Israel provides a rigorous due process mechanism and has taken much care to ensure the continued flow of humanitarian assistance into the Gaza Strip, I do not believe Israel is deliberately engaging in collective punishment of the Palestinians. Hamas, by stealing oil and confiscating humanitarian aid, is doing so, as such acts are wholly unnecessary and entirely inconsistent with the purposes of such assistance.

Originally Posted by cherokee Well Collectively the people in Gaza are allowing the Hamas to decide and act out its retarded version of Islam. Collectively the same people are doing nothing to stop the daily attacks on Israel from the Hamas and others groups like the Islamic Jihad. Collectively the Gaza people are sleeping in a bed they made or allowed to be made for them by the hamas in derailing every peace deal made by Abbas. So collectively the people of Gaza can deal with it.

Originally Posted by Bad Biscuit This is confusing. One of you says 'its not Israel its Hamas thats doing the collective punishment - on their own people!' then the next one says 'its the people of gaza thats doing the collective punishment - on themselves!'. So who is it? Hamas or the Gazans or Israel?

Originally Posted by Bad Biscuit To save confusion, perhaps you should stop the spinning, take a deep breath, sip your tea and admit that Israel is indeed doing the collective punishment and that you are happy with that cos in your opinion they deserve everything they get!

Originally Posted by Bad Biscuit By the way, are you at all interested in why a normally secular minded people by the standards of the region might want to vote for a group such as hamas?

Originally Posted by Bad Biscuit Ive hidden a clue for you to read in your tea leaves - hamas is an arabic acronym for the Islamic resistance movement. BB

Originally Posted by Bad Biscuit Anyway, one can say a place has bad governance but its pretty strange to hear of a gov doing collective punishment on its own people. Did you just make up this notion for your own political ends? e.g to try and deflect the criticism pointed at israel for its actions?

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