I can't find any decent colleges in smaller cities - Page 6

RightinNYC · 04-10-08, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 128shot

..i have a phobia of living in cities with more than 800,000 people I don't know why, but every time I'm in a city that has roughly more than that, I just can't seem to manage the monster size of it all..

But all the decent colleges I could ever get in to (except 2) are located in such places.

Anyone got like a decent way to search colleges by both criteria and size of town they're located in?

If you don't mind sharing the schools that you're looking at and the range of school you're hoping to attend, I might be able to throw out some names.

SFLRN · 04-10-08, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

I can't compare universities, as I don't know anybody who has been to an US uni. But I can compare high schools. If you want more details, ask me and I'll send a mail to some friends who have been in the USA (of course you have to trust in their personnal experience, there won't be anything scientific in the comparison)

I'd be glad to have more details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

But I don't really agree with the rankings. Even the experts don't find real criteria for that. They rank by size, by the number of nobel prizes...but don't take many factors into account.

I'll agree that some schools are ranked because they are enormous institutions. However, there are a good number of U.S. liberal arts schools that have low faculty to students ratio (meaning more contact with professors) that would definitely suggest high educational quality. Princeton (which is the highest ranked university in the U.S.,) has only 4,760 total undergraduates. There are roughly 850 faculty members as well. That's close to one faculty member for every six students. That's a very good ratio. Princeton also ranks highest on many student satisfaction measures done by the Princeton Review (which is a different company, not affiliated with the university). It's definitely a strong university outside of it's research tradition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

For example, if the number of language spoken by students was taken into account, countries like Switzerland, Belgium or the Netherlands would be in the top, while English-speaking countries would probably be last.

This is more of an issue of American students not receiving foreign language instruction until they are well into their teens (which is a foolish policy by most empirical studies, if one is going to teach them a foreign language). American universities are not as "international," but they still have a fair number of students from abroad (it's harder to compare the two because a European can travel the distance of a U.S. state and be in a completely different country, or cross through two countries. I would agree that Americans are somewhat deficient in their foreign language abilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

Other important things, like the knowledge of arts or history (and not only national history) are very difficult to rank. We don't learn the same things.

Most colleges require you to take some broad "general education" courses. You usually have to take a multinational diversity course in which you look at another country's culture. Although this may vary by institution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

And when common tests are attempted to rank these things, US always score better because the way the questions are asked is very familiar to US students (multiple choices questions for example) while here the students are asked to write down x lines about a subject.

I don't believe standardized testing is used at the collegiate level to compare universities in these rankings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

Of course Cambridge, Oxford or Berkely are probably the best universities, but don't look down at European universities, whose level is not bad at all. We educate engineers who built the Airbus the US Army has just bought, who build the busses you are using (Van Hool), the trains you copied (ACELA)...

Definitely. I don't look down at European education. I just think it can be better than it currently is (as U.S. education can be).

rivrrat · 04-10-08, 04:32 PM

WVU, in Morgantown, WV

Lynchburg, VA. Has a few colleges and it's a nice quaint town. Central Virginia Community College, Liberty University, Lynchburg College, Randolph College, and Virginia University of Lynchburg.

bub · 04-10-08, 07:07 PM

thanks for the answer!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFLRN

I'd be glad to have more details.

email sent 2 minutes ago - I'll transfer it to you when I get the answer

Quote:

I'll agree that some schools are ranked because they are enormous institutions. However, there are a good number of U.S. liberal arts schools that have low faculty to students ratio (meaning more contact with professors) that would definitely suggest high educational quality. Princeton (which is the highest ranked university in the U.S.,) has only 4,760 total undergraduates. There are roughly 850 faculty members as well. That's close to one faculty member for every six students. That's a very good ratio. Princeton also ranks highest on many student satisfaction measures done by the Princeton Review (which is a different company, not affiliated with the university). It's definitely a strong university outside of it's research tradition.

Maybe it is an excellent university because it gets a lot of funding. You should compare it to the average US university and see how much money is important! Then compare this average US university to the average EU university, and then compare the level - I'm not sure that you'll see a lot of difference!

Quote:

This is more of an issue of American students not receiving foreign language instruction until they are well into their teens (which is a foolish policy by most empirical studies, if one is going to teach them a foreign language). American universities are not as "international," but they still have a fair number of students from abroad (it's harder to compare the two because a European can travel the distance of a U.S. state and be in a completely different country, or cross through two countries. I would agree that Americans are somewhat deficient in their foreign language abilities.

One of my teachers was American, and I was amazed that he was more fluent in Dutch that I am

Quote:

Most colleges require you to take some broad "general education" courses. You usually have to take a multinational diversity course in which you look at another country's culture. Although this may vary by institution.

And it's hard to compare the "general education" of an US student with the one of a Belgian student. For example, you have never heard about Yves Leterme, and nobody here knows who is Oprah (though many of us know Obama, Clinton and McCain)

Quote:

I don't believe standardized testing is used at the collegiate level to compare universities in these rankings.

It was done in PISA

If you want to see some critics about such rankings:
PISA: critical bibliography

"The author discusses PISA, TIMSS and IGLU and shows more or less hidden inconsistencies, shaky argumentations, risky interpretations, and obvious abuse. He reasons directly on the constructs and data of the studies. From a mathematic-didactical point of view, the competence-stage-model of PISA and other comparative studies have enormous errors. It is not suitable to describe both, personal and content-relevant competence stages, and it is, moreover, unsuitable for the integration of both scales. PISA's ignorance of the national curricula is questionable. However the test does not show any validity even for the concept of 'mathematical literacy', which should substitute for the national curricula issue, since, for the majority of the exercises, this competence is either not necessary or even obstructive. Several mathematical didactic standards are violated to fit the characteristics of the exercises into the theoretical test model. Particularly in Germany, the PISA results were abused by political and media elites in order to manipulate public opinion and to serve certain ideologies. PISA shares responsibility for such abuse in two ways. On the one hand there is no official objection against such abuse, and on the other, a biased definition and selection of parameters even furthers the abuse. Especially the influence of the migrations structure is systematically underestimated in favour of an undifferentiated 'social' structure. PISA and other comparative studies neglect the level of performance orientation in different societies, although this has much more influence on the results than most of the studie' 'measured' parameters. In particular, PISA and other comparative studies do not offer any results about the suitability of structured or non-structured school systems, yet conclude, for example, that — upon examination of the migration structure according to PISA points system — Bavaria is among the leading countries in the world."

bub · 04-10-08, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new coup for you

There's a difference right there...you couldn't pay me to drink with my teachers.

they're nice!

but it would have looked too kiss a$$ to talk to them, and I was not drunk enough, so...

128shot · 04-10-08, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightinNYC

If you don't mind sharing the schools that you're looking at and the range of school you're hoping to attend, I might be able to throw out some names.

Eh. I just don't want to feel lame.

North Dakota State Universtiy, University of North Dakota, U of Minn. Morris.

I'm looking into seeing if I can actually get into U of M. Twin cities, but it only has a 57% acceptance rate..

i know, i'm stupid, but whatever. These are the colleges I can probably get into.

SFLRN · 04-11-08, 12:23 AM

Hey, the college admission process has so many different factors that many very smart people get turned down from schools for no apparent reason. It's all about what you make of the opportunities your university presents you. If you really don't like it you can always transfer. Success and one's choice for undergraduate schooling are not strongly linked.

bub · 04-11-08, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 128shot

Eh. I just don't want to feel lame.

North Dakota State Universtiy, University of North Dakota, U of Minn. Morris.

I'm looking into seeing if I can actually get into U of M. Twin cities, but it only has a 57% acceptance rate..

i know, i'm stupid, but whatever. These are the colleges I can probably get into.

even if the ratio was 20% it would worth a try!

WI Crippler · 04-11-08, 10:34 AM

Where are you from? Schools love thoses out of staters because of the extra tuition they get to charge.

SFLRN · 04-11-08, 01:57 PM

At some schools being out of state may also mean you bring "Geographical Diversity," which can up your chances. This is more the case at North-Eastern liberal arts colleges, but it could still work to your advantage.