When faith healing fails....... - Page 2

mikhail · 03-27-08, 11:36 PM

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Originally Posted by 1069

I can tell you're a foreigner. British?
Here in America, everybody cuts their child's foreskin off.
It's the Murkin way.
Good, hygienic, God-fearing salt-of-the-earth Christian patriots mutilate their infants' weenies for the love of Jesus and Country... and look down on dirty, depraved, and degenerate Europeans like you.

It's got nothing to do with being Jewish. They probably don't even realize that it's a jew thang, or was, originally.

Id rather have my foreskin though.It makes sex more pleasurable for both parties.Yea i heard it was a common thing in America but it should be stopped.But yea its basically a jewish thing.

Ethereal · 03-28-08, 03:12 AM

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Id rather have my foreskin though.It makes sex more pleasurable for both parties.Yea i heard it was a common thing in America but it should be stopped.But yea its basically a jewish thing.

Then keep your forskin, it's your right. I, however, am glad I don't have one, nor would I want my children to have any. It's a perfectly safe medical procedure that leaves males less prone to infection and poor hygeine. Who are you to say parents shouldn't have the option of an elective, yet beneficial, surgery?

P.S. - Just about every male in America has this procedure done - forskins are considered somewhat of an oddity. If you espoused your beliefs about the forskin over here you would certainly be the subject of laughter.

P.S.S. - Quick question. How would you know which form of sex is more pleasurable? Do you have a detatchable forskin or something?

Sharon den Adel · 03-28-08, 04:44 AM

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Originally Posted by mikhail

Well its disgusting enough that jews feel the need to cut a childs foreskin short i would have that banned for a start

So only Jewish males are circumcised, are they?

Rev. · 03-28-08, 05:40 AM

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Originally Posted by RightOfCenter

This seems like the makings of a strawman to me. Parents should be able to decide on how to raise their children, but when your child dies because you failed to provide adequate treatment you should have your children taken away.

The girl's diabetes was UNDIGNOSED. The parent's didn't even know she had it. It cannot be said that parents "failed to provide adequate treatment" for a condition they didn't even know she had. They didn't expect her to die...maybe because they expected God to heal, MAYBE because they didn't think she had anything serious.

My grandmother's diabetes was diagnosed when her blood sugar was 640 (normal should be below 145). Grown adults walk around with undiagnosed diabetes all the time...this girls parents should be faulted because they didn't know?

jfuh · 03-28-08, 06:34 AM

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Originally Posted by Rev.

The girl's diabetes was UNDIGNOSED. The parent's didn't even know she had it. It cannot be said that parents "failed to provide adequate treatment" for a condition they didn't even know she had. They didn't expect her to die...maybe because they expected God to heal, MAYBE because they didn't think she had anything serious.

My grandmother's diabetes was diagnosed when her blood sugar was 640 (normal should be below 145). Grown adults walk around with undiagnosed diabetes all the time...this girls parents should be faulted because they didn't know?

That would be negligence. Instead of some superstitious belief of some mystical being going to come down and cure their sick child what they should've done was go seek medical attention.
The on sought of Diabetes is not sudden, its long and painful - why would they think that it was something that prayer would be able to resolve?

mikhail · 03-28-08, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethereal

Then keep your forskin, it's your right. I, however, am glad I don't have one, nor would I want my children to have any. It's a perfectly safe medical procedure that leaves males less prone to infection and poor hygeine. Who are you to say parents shouldn't have the option of an elective, yet beneficial, surgery?

P.S. - Just about every male in America has this procedure done - forskins are considered somewhat of an oddity. If you espoused your beliefs about the forskin over here you would certainly be the subject of laughter.

P.S.S. - Quick question. How would you know which form of sex is more pleasurable? Do you have a detatchable forskin or something?

Yea everything you put there is simply not true American do it for somekind of fashion ideal.You wont find the science to back that up.

YouTube - Penn & Teller - Bull****! - 301 - Circumcision p2

Check out the p and t episode.The fact is your just cutting a bit off a babies penis off.It cuts off parts of the most sensitive area on the body.

Ikari · 03-28-08, 09:39 AM

clearly manslaughter charges are warranted in this case. They purposefully kept her from the hospital as she slowly slipped into a coma and die. The diabetes may have been undiagnosed, but when the body starts shutting down...the symptoms are obvious. As is the solution; go to the hospital. The parents caused the death of another human being and in doing so (even though it was through neglect and not purposeful malice) infringed upon the rights of another. Your right to practice religion ends at the rights of another. They ignored all the signs of a dying daughter, let her body shut down, and watched as she slipped into a coma and died all the while doing nothing to help her.

Gods are useless, stupid creations which will never be there in actual time of need. Prayers are wastes of time which have no affect on the real world. The only thing that matters is the actions of man, the only way to get something done is to do it. Relying on invisible, inactive, imaginary beings for a solution is never going to work.

Rev. · 03-28-08, 10:59 AM

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Originally Posted by jfuh

That would be negligence. Instead of some superstitious belief of some mystical being going to come down and cure their sick child what they should've done was go seek medical attention.

But if they were hippies relying on "natural food" for treatment, that would have been okay. Or New Agers relying on homeopathy. Or someone relying on herbs. Those are all "acceptable" alternative treatments, but prayer is not?

There are too many testimonies of prayer healing in the face of medical dead ends. It is not unreasonable to believe that prayer heals.

Which brings us back to my original point...this is about parent's rights...a parent's right to make a decision for their child regardless of their basis for that decison.

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Originally Posted by jfuh

The on sought of Diabetes is not sudden, its long and painful - why would they think that it was something that prayer would be able to resolve?

The onset of diabetes is not long and painful and the condition of HAVING diabetes is not painful. The symptoms of diabetes can be very subtle or even non-existant, and if they exist can be confused for other conditions. Grown adults are walking around with full-blown diabetes and are not even aware of it. The parents were not aware their daughter even had diabetes, so they were not praying for her diabetes to be cured.

RightOfCenter · 03-28-08, 11:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Rev.

But if they were hippies relying on "natural food" for treatment, that would have been okay. Or New Agers relying on homeopathy. Or someone relying on herbs. Those are all "acceptable" alternative treatments, but prayer is not?

No, and jfuh wasn't defending that. Don't try and setup strawmen.

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There are too many testimonies of prayer healing in the face of medical dead ends. It is not unreasonable to believe that prayer heals.

Didn't work this time did it?

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Which brings us back to my original point...this is about parent's rights...a parent's right to make a decision for their child regardless of their basis for that decison.

It wasn't the right decision. The girl is dead, that should be proof enough.

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The onset of diabetes is not long and painful and the condition of HAVING diabetes is not painful. The symptoms of diabetes can be very subtle or even non-existant, and if they exist can be confused for other conditions. Grown adults are walking around with full-blown diabetes and are not even aware of it. The parents were not aware their daughter even had diabetes, so they were not praying for her diabetes to be cured.

They didn't know about her diabetes because they didn't go to a doctor! From the article: "She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness"
So did they pray for God to cure that? I suppose the almighty demands you be specific in your prayers? "Please cure my daughter's type 1 diabetes please lord?"

Hatuey · 03-28-08, 12:30 PM

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Originally Posted by Rev.

This isn't a religious issue per se, but an issue of parent's rights. Do parents have the right to raise their children in the way they see fit?

Sure they do. As long as they don't endanger the lives of their kids. I have the right to raise my kid as I see fit. Do I have the right to deny her medical treatment when she clearly needs it and I can more then afford it? No. Do I have the right to let her drive my car when she turns 5? No. Do I have the right to let her do stupid sh!t that can endanger her life? No.

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Ultimately, in this country anyway, the answer is no. Anyone who cares to make a judgement on how I raise my children, and disagrees, simply has to accuse me of abuse. And simply on the basis of SUSPICION, I lose my kids.

Are you f'n kidding me? These are people aren't being accused of abuse & negligence. They're GUILTY of abuse & negligence. Or do you think that there is any doubt on whether they stupidly deny their kid medical treatment she needed?

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And EVERYTHING is abuse. Quick! Call DHS!! I was seen taking my kids to McDonalds!...Oh dear! My kid is neglected!...he didn't wear his mittens to school today!

Ridiculous non-sequitur trying to hide the fact that what these people did clearly led to their kid's death. Me taking my healthy kid to McDonalds won't kill her. However if she had an illness that specifically told me that she should not eat ****ty food like that from McDonalds and I took her anyways and that led to her death then yes. I would be guilty of child abuse.

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I certainly don't LIKE that a child died because her parents refused to seek medical care. But I also would not like to be forced to flee the country in order to save my terminally ill child from court-ordered treatments that in the end would NOT save his life. And I don't think it's right that a woman I know had her nursing 3-week old baby taken for a MONTH because she refused the newborn blood screening (for religious reasons).

UMMM THIS KIDS ILLNESS WAS EASILY TREATABLE. Are you f'n trying to justify not taking your kid to the doctor for 8 years? Are you serious? Wtf does any of this have to do with the OP? Do you even know what doctors are for? They're qualified medical personnel who's job it is to tell you whether your kid is sick or not. When you purposely ignore them as they are the only people capable of saving your kids life then you are being a negligent parent.

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Every parent makes bad decisions that SOMETIMES lead to irrepairable harm. And undoubtedly, I will make choices for my children that you won't like...but that doesn't give you or anyone else the right to parent them for me.

These parents say they didn't know their child would die. Add them to the list of parents who run over their kid with their SUV because they didn't think to check where their child was when they started backing up. Or the list of parents whose children die from eating the cigarette butts they left laying around. It was a choice with unintended consequences. Sad. But we shouldn't react by taking away EVERY parents right to make a choice...whether for religious reasons or any other.

Are you f'n serious? Are you comparing ACCIDENTS to voluntarily denying your kid medical treatment because you think standing around chanting magical spells will save them? These people hadn't taken their kid to a doctor for 8 F.V.CKING YEARS. Thats 2922 DAYS. Are you saying that what they did was accidental? EVERYTHING about this story points to the deliberate endangerment of a child. Your attempt to justify what these people did is grounded in the fact that they're religious fantatics "Rev" and nothing else.