TOJ

That's the theory. How's it been working out for ya?

Ikari

Been going well. One has to start somewhere and just because more people don't assert their sovereignty and power over the government doesn't mean I shouldn't either. This lack of understanding where power is rooted is one of the reasons we have the disconnected, irresponsible, and large government now. "Conservatives" used to understand this premise too, they used to talk about the People as owners of the government, but there aren't many conservatives left these days. Anyone who mocks or dismisses the fact that it is the People who own the government and that it is the People who give government credibility is no conservative. Usually it's a socialist or a commie as those ideologies have the State with all the innate power and can wield it over the people as it sees fit. Though we have seen a rise in fascism, especially out of the neo-con corner so it's possible one believing the State has innate power and authority comes from the fascist camp instead.

Either or, it isn't the founding principles of this country, that's for sure. This country was founded on the People being in charge, and the People having the power. Mocking something so innate and fundamental to America...kinda sad. Not understanding what that means...slap to the founder's collective face. People fought and died for We the People, so that We the People were the ones in charge, so that We the People can control and limit the government so that we can maximize our liberty. It is how government knows its place, and understands its roll as servant of the people. Without understanding this point, the government grows because if you accept that they have the power then as they say they can do more things, you just accept that they can. If the power is their's innately then they don't even need a Constitution, they can do as they like. But it's not the government with innate power, there is a reason the government is supposed to get our permission before it does crap; because we are in charge. And as a freeman, this is one of the most important concepts to not only understand, but to accept and to shoulder the consequences and responsibilities there of.

Either it's the People with the power or it's the government. Those who believe in freedom and liberty, those who believe in this country and what it was founded on, understand that the power is with the People and that no government has innate authority or innate power; everything is granted to them by the People and everything can be taken from them by the People.

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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

new coup for you

I love how excited and self-important libertarians get over knowing things taught to children in the third grade.

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And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

Ikari

Well I'm glad that you are entertained by it. But there is an importance to defining where the power basis lies and to the understanding of what that really means. Sure these things are taught to school kids, but do they really grasp the concept? Do many adults even grasp the concept? One can say "the people are in charge", but it doesn't mean they understand what that means. When you say government has no authority, do you fundamentally understand what that means. If you argue for government expansion without the permission of the people then you don't get it. And it doesn't matter if it was taught in 3rd grade or not if the concept is lost. Maybe Libertarians are "excited and self-important" over things taught in "third grade" because the vast majority seem to have little understanding of the concept which was supposedly taught to us in the third grade. Or maybe you just wanted to make a snide and unimportant comment; either or.

__________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

new coup for you

Thank you for personally saving freedom. I know it must be exhausting. Would you like to go back a page and look at my link detailing the actual requirements of RID? I know it's not as fun as telling everyone how you personally are the champion of liberty and are all the divides the Western World from a resurgence of totalitarianism, but if you merely took a casual glance at the actual legislation you might feel differently.

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And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

Ikari

Quite so, and I have read it and I don't like it in the least. I don't think the government should have the ability to track its people. RFID is common technology, it's well known. And while at this point one can not use real long range scanners to read them; that technology is but a matter of time. The entire piece of legislation gives the government too much wiggle room and can allow for the expansion of tracking and databasing techniques of which the government should be barred from. Sorry that you're scare of terrorists and illegal aliens, but maybe it's time to get over it instead of authorizing the government with the tools necessary to data base and track its citizens at its leisure.

__________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

new coup for you

Why don't you address what it actually is, not what you think it'll be in the future? Perhaps because it's not as fun as self righteous furor over ludicrous conspiracy theories?

All it is is a list of requirements for state IDs. That's it. The info it has isn't even the most significant change, almost all IDs currently conform to them, the big change is the restriction in who it can be given too. No illegals and no people who can't prove they have a SSN.

Do you want accolades because you don't want to live in East Germany? That's not a particularly uncommon or revolutionary position.

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And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

Ikari

I get it. It's the "don't look behind the curtain" dodge. Yes, let's not take things to logical conclusions, cause hell that's gonna show why it's a dumb idea. Let's focus merely on the fact that it's "list" of "requirements" for State IDs set forth by the federal government (of which it had no authority over the States to do so, but let's forget that bit o' power grab too cause...well we just don't want to examine it) and forced to be paid through the State even though this isn't a significant problem...but let's not look at that either.

So if we throw out everything and focus on one itty bitty little piece that you want focused on it becomes...useless. Federal government was never granted the ability to have nationalize, required IDs with tracking capabilities, this is clearly a State issue and has nothing to do with the Federal government other than the federal government was looking for a backdoor way to national ID, it's usurpation of power that grants tools to the federal govenrment with databasing and tracking which it shouldn't have access too against its own people. But for those wetting themselves over terrorists and illegal aliens, I guess I can see why they would think this would do something. Though that something is nothing more than a money sink and allowing the federal government to have tools to wield against the People that it shouldn't and a further whittling away of State power. But, hey, let's not focus on that.

__________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

new coup for you

Yes, I am hampered by a requirement of proof.

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And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

new coup for you

If you want to argue that it's unconstitutional you might have a case, if you want to argue that it's the first step to Stalinism you're talking out of your ***

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And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?