Obama's speech - Page 13

Mach · 03-19-08, 06:28 PM

If you cannot hold simultaneously opposing views in your mind as a human, you should work on it, it's a valuable skill and is often a symptom of wisdom, or adulthood.

I must confess though, some people may be so use to George Bush that they forget what an intelligent, well-spoken, charismatic leader can do with their brain.

Let's see if we all actually do this daily:

I don't like exercising.
I know exercising will make me feel better in the long-term, and probably live longer.
I will exercise because I both like it, and hate it.

Another:

I don't like work.
I don't like having to work.
I go to work every day in an effort to make enough money so I will no longer have to work at some time in the future.
I work while not wanting to work.

Seems I can't escape it.

Let me try another one.

Black america still harbors anger towards the white majority.
White america still harbors anger towards the black minority.

Both of those can exist at the same time, and a human can process them at the same time?

Thankfully, Yes. At least for Obama, I can't say the same for GWB. He has trouble with pronouncing words, we shouldn't expect that much from him.

-Mach

independent_thinker2002 · 03-19-08, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe

I think you answered that one yourself, when you say he chooses not to disavow Wright. Obama is a politician, come on, that's not an innocent thing. You get into politics, you've seen it all, and then some. Wright said God Damn America like a machine gun. He blamed America for 9/11, or we got what we deserved. I wouldn't associate with someone like that, and you know Obama shouldn't, either.

Does he think it's somehow noble to stand tall with someone who says things against the country he loves so deeply? I don't get it.

I didn't care what Clinton did. She had put up with Bill before, plus he's her husband, so she can make up her own mind about it. Now if I really liked Hillary, I would think she should have left him, yes. There are lots of reasons women stay with unfaithful husbands, and I'm not thinking love is real high on the list, it's usually for other reasons.

Wrights words were inciteful, and he's in a position of power. Obama considers Wright family, well I know lots of people who have ended relationsips with family. It's not uncommon.

It also could mean he agrees with Wright underneath it all. He says no, but why didn't he quit going to this church the first time he heard the vitriol? I'd say I'm sorry, but I can't remain friends with this guy, and should have cut and run long ago. I don't find any of this particularly principled. Obama should be under the same scrutiny all the candidates are.

You assume that he had heard those comments before.

Marilyn Monroe · 03-19-08, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

You assume that he had heard those comments before.

I think he should have known, and did.

independent_thinker2002 · 03-19-08, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe

I think he should have known, and did.

Yet you have no evidence of that. Convincing.

aps · 03-19-08, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe

I think you answered that one yourself, when you say he chooses not to disavow Wright. Obama is a politician, come on, that's not an innocent thing. You get into politics, you've seen it all, and then some. Wright said God Damn America like a machine gun. He blamed America for 9/11, or we got what we deserved. I wouldn't associate with someone like that, and you know Obama shouldn't, either.

Does he think it's somehow noble to stand tall with someone who says things against the country he loves so deeply? I don't get it.

I didn't care what Clinton did. She had put up with Bill before, plus he's her husband, so she can make up her own mind about it. Now if I really liked Hillary, I would think she should have left him, yes. There are lots of reasons women stay with unfaithful husbands, and I'm not thinking love is real high on the list, it's usually for other reasons.

Wrights words were inciteful, and he's in a position of power. Obama considers Wright family, well I know lots of people who have ended relationsips with family. It's not uncommon.

It also could mean he agrees with Wright underneath it all. He says no, but why didn't he quit going to this church the first time he heard the vitriol? I'd say I'm sorry, but I can't remain friends with this guy, and should have cut and run long ago. I don't find any of this particularly principled. Obama should be under the same scrutiny all the candidates are.

I can understand where you're coming from, but you refuse to see any other point of view. That's called closed minded and uninteresting. Bye bye

Marilyn Monroe · 03-20-08, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aps

I can understand where you're coming from, but you refuse to see any other point of view. That's called closed minded and uninteresting. Bye bye

First off, I'm not uninteresting, but....ok.

I know the other point of view, and I think it's pretty weak. You're sticking up for something that to me really can't be done. Obama can say lots of words, but it's all in the actions on this one, so he's come down a peg or two in my book.

I don't really have anything else to say, because at this point I'm nervous about him becoming President, not just for this, but this could be a hint, and you can't overlook hints sometimes.

aps · 03-20-08, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe

First off, I'm not uninteresting, but....ok.

In your opinion, you're not uninteresting. In mine, however, you are. Anyone who is incapable of seeing another point of view is uninteresting to me.

Quote:

I know the other point of view, and I think it's pretty weak. You're sticking up for something that to me really can't be done. Obama can say lots of words, but it's all in the actions on this one, so he's come down a peg or two in my book.

What this tells me Marilyn is that you don't have relationships with anyone for whom you have unconditional love. Do you have a child? I'm guessing not, bcause then maybe you wouldn't be so closed minded. You can scream and yell about how Obama should do what YOU would do under the circumstances all you want. He goes down a peg or two in your book because of this--fine. But your failure to have any understanding of his position is really shortsighted.....really shortsighted.

Quote:

I don't really have anything else to say, because at this point I'm nervous about him becoming President, not just for this, but this could be a hint, and you can't overlook hints sometimes.

Now you know what it's like for those of us who could never have supported George Bush's candidacy.

Marilyn Monroe · 03-20-08, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aps

In your opinion, you're not uninteresting. In mine, however, you are. Anyone who is incapable of seeing another point of view is uninteresting to me.

What this tells me Marilyn is that you don't have relationships with anyone for whom you have unconditional love. Do you have a child? I'm guessing not, bcause then maybe you wouldn't be so closed minded. You can scream and yell about how Obama should do what YOU would do under the circumstances all you want. He goes down a peg or two in your book because of this--fine. But your failure to have any understanding of his position is really shortsighted.....really shortsighted.

Now you know what it's like for those of us who could never have supported George Bush's candidacy.

Apparently you liberals think you have a monopoly on all this unconditional BS. I know all about it, and it's not something you usually dish out to non-relatives number one, but even if you do, I'm not convinced that this is what it is. Obama can say the words, but I don't believe it.

MO is no white politician would ever in a million years get away with this.

I'm not shortsighted, I just am not totally convinced, because unconditional love can change just like anything else, sometimes we have to go to tough love.

I choose not to be convinced just as you weren't convinced about Bush. I personally am never convinced 100% by any of these politicians.

aps · 03-20-08, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe

Apparently you liberals think you have a monopoly on all this unconditional BS. I know all about it, and it's not something you usually dish out to non-relatives number one, but even if you do, I'm not convinced that this is what it is. Obama can say the words, but I don't believe it.

MO is no white politician would ever in a million years get away with this.

I'm not shortsighted, I just am not totally convinced, because unconditional love can change just like anything else, sometimes we have to go to tough love.

I choose not to be convinced just as you weren't convinced about Bush. I personally am never convinced 100% by any of these politicians.

I'm not saying that unconditional loves conquers all--but it impacts people's decision on whether to keep someone in their life. Look at Jeffrey Dahmer's father. His son kills people and eats them and he chose not to abandon his son. Look at Scott Peterson's mother--her son murdered his wife and unborn child, and she chose not to abandon him.

What I find rather humorous is those of you who assume that Reverend Wright was saying the outrageous things shown on You Tube EVERY SINGLE WEEK or even once a month. If these angry sermons were all Wright had to offer, I would wonder what the heck Obama was doing remaining friends with him. That's not the impression I got from Obama's speech or other things he has said.

Nevertheless, I am not going to convince you that there are possiblities where people decide to overlook flaws of someone and continue the friendship for what it is. I just hope some day you have an understanding of such emotion because it is powerful.

By the way, I had no idea that "unconditional BS" is only felt by liberals. What do you know?

azura28 · 03-25-08, 08:02 PM

[url]http://www.realclearpolitics.com

March 25, 2008
The Audacity of Rhetoric
By Thomas Sowell

By Thomas Sowell

It is painful to watch defenders of Barack Obama tying themselves into knots trying to evade the obvious.

Some are saying that Senator Obama cannot be held responsible for what his pastor, Jeremiah Wright, said. In their version of events, Barack Obama just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time -- and a bunch of mean-spirited people are trying to make something out of it.

It makes a good story, but it won't stand up under scrutiny.

Barack Obama's own account of his life shows that he consciously sought out people on the far left fringe. In college, "I chose my friends carefully," he said in his first book, "Dreams From My Father."

These friends included "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets" -- in Obama's own words -- as well as the "more politically active black students." He later visited a former member of the terrorist Weatherman underground, who endorsed him when he ran for state senator.

Obama didn't just happen to encounter Jeremiah Wright, who just happened to say some way out things. Jeremiah Wright is in the same mold as the kinds of people Barack Obama began seeking out in college -- members of the left, anti-American counter-culture.

Another really good article on the reality of Obama.