jfuh

I think it should be obvious by now of how I would respond to this. You live however you want to live, no one is invading their cultural identity - see my reponse to bub about movies, football ect. I mean seriously would you consider this to be cultural genocide by Europe against Tibet??

If not, then why would teaching the national language or imploying capitalist market strategies be cultural genocide?? I just don't get it?

Given that There are Tibetans in other provinces throughout China and that no one has prohibited the exile government from moving out in the first place I don't see why there would be any reason to suspect not.

Well it's very regrettable, but you have to ask the question. Is culture the product of religion or religion the product of culture? I happen to believe the later so I don't see how it's some form of cultural genocide.
AS for putting han's into hostile territory you seem to be under the impression that it is the government that is moving ethnic han into the Tibetan plateau. That's not even remotely true. Those individuals are going there by their own accord.

Descriptions are better via the use of analogies.
But is it a cultural genocide? Has the scottish culture been lost? Is there any furtherance of what the English did in the past (breeding out)?
Turn all that around and examine what even the communist government ever did to Tibet. No ethnic cleansing, no breed outs or some form of royal decrees none of that. Seriously if all it takes is to exile and arrest a religious leader is enough to exterminate a culture then that culture wasn't very cultural to begin with.

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The facts and science of the theory of anthropogenic Global warming

jfuh

Are you French?

AsIseeIt

No, I like French food, Japanese food, Thai food, Chinese food, etc. I like to learn as many languages as possible such as French, German, Japanese, English, Chinese, etc. I enjoy listening to Japanese, Korean, Thai, English, Tibetan, Cantonese, Hokkien, Mandarin music and songs, etc. I like to read English and Chinese books, etc.

I look at the world with an open mind and two eyes. I am an overseas Chinese.

jfuh

Not many Chinese on this site welcome bro

AsIseeIt

ludaha says: "The difference is China is multi-ethnic through CONQUEST, must like the old Ottoman Empire and Habsburg Austria and like Russia still is today. The US is multi-ethnic mostly through immigration. HUGE difference."

1. Yes, Professor Lu, I readily agree with you that it is really a "HUGE difference". As the Chinese saying goes, "Xiao mou jiang da mo" (dwarf encountering a giant), what China had done is nothing when compared to the US CONQUEST and violation of human rights.

Please take note of what Abraham Lincoln had said in 1838 in the link War and Empire Are and Always Have Been the American Way of Life- Empire? - Global Policy Forum

"Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth…could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio…If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher."

2. The US is multi-ethnic mostly through immigration? Well, it's high time our Professor Lu got to venture out of his ivory tower.

An article in The Making of The United States: Westward Expansion 1783 to 1890 - Empire? - Global Policy Forum said: ".... the United States enjoyed the luxury of a built-in empire. The westward movement may be understood as a type of domestic imperialism, with many of the same motives as the imperialist movement in Europe, but with profoundly different results. The native culture of North America was not merely conquered but destroyed; an integrated capitalist democracy developed in its place."


ludaha says: "Big difference between doing this in a country with democratic institutions (the US) as opposed to a non-democratic tyranny who is occupying your country (China.)"

3. Professor Lu, I also readily agree with you that there is a "big difference between doing this in a country with democratic institutions (the US) as opposed to a non-democratic tyranny" in China. Just look at what the "democratic" US had accomplished with "the Removal Act of 1830" and "the Homestead Act of 1862" in Native American Genocide Still Haunts U.S.

(Begin excerpts)
......The Removal Act of 1830 set into motion a series of events which led to the "Trail of Tears" in 1838, a forced march of the Cherokees, resulting in the destruction of most of the Cherokee population."

......We now also know that the Indians were intentionally exposed to smallpox by Europeans. The discovery of gold in California, early in 1848, prompted American migration and expansion into the west. The greed of Americans for money and land was rejuvenated with the Homestead Act of 1862. In California and Texas there was blatant genocide of Indians by non-Indians during certain historic periods. In California, the decrease from about a quarter of a million to less than 20,000 is primarily due to the cruelties and wholesale massacres perpetrated by the miners and early settlers.....

.....Genocide against many particular groups is still widely happening today. The discrimination of the Native American population is only one example of this ruthless destruction. (End excerpts)

4. Please refer to the link Great Sioux Nation on more information about the fate of the Red Indians in a country with democratic institutions. According to the article, "the entire Indian population was nearly eradicated with the coming of the Europeans. It is estimated that in 1492, there were more than 5-million Indians living on the continent. By 1900, their numbers had dwindled to less than 250,000."

5. In conclusion, I would like to quote Sioux chief Red Cloud in the link The Great Sioux Nation

"What has been done in my country I did not want.
Did not ask for white people going through my country.
When the white man comes in my country
He leaves a trail of blood behind him."

AsIseeIt

fuh says: "Not many Chinese on this site welcome bro"

Glad to join you, bro, to exchange views and ideas with our friends here. Perhaps you can recommend this forum to all Chinese members of the Chinese-language political forums in mainland China and Taiwan, so that they can come over here to speak out their minds. The more the merrier!

jfuh

Not that many that are politically minded or fluent enough in English ehehhe.

Infinite Chaos

I don't ask you to believe.

Govt records get released after a certain period of time and these are documents published into the public domain within the last 10 years. I had no desire to find and post a link as they are not pertinent to a story about Tibet.

EDIT: Actually... I can sense the challenge to post my link.

Let's agree BEFOREHAND that if I find the proof / link you will agree you failed to research your opinion before you post it. I will not bother until I have that in writing from you. I've argued with too many Americans who don't acknowledge when a point has been scored on this forum.

Infinite Chaos

My apologies to jfuh - the last time the French offered to join with the UK was not pre World War 2 - it was the 1950's.

So in response to your comment they may only have done it because of the alternative of facing the Germans in battle alone - we're both wrong.

Infinite Chaos

Of course - however I see this as a discussion and you answer intelligently and coherently - even if I don't accept all your views or facts the conversation is worth continuing. I have certainly found out a whole lot more than I would simply reading Western or Chinese sources.

Dictating how the Tibetans can practice their religion, dictating who their religious figures are in contravention of the Tibetans mode of choosing (the Panchen Lama for one) and many other actions carried out by the communists - including the destruction of many of the monasteries in the cultural revolution (and since) certainly counts as a destruction of their culture by me.

There we obviously disagree - the story of the Panchen lama to me and the destruction of monasteries is an attack on a culture - much like communists have tried to carry out elsewhere in the world.

For what purpose? It is a barren landscape by all accounts and the very high and cold altitude makes breathing difficult if you are not used to it. The Chinese Govt may not be rounding up Han Chinese and moving them to Tibet at gunpoint so how or why would the Han choose to go?

I could mention salary rewards or offers of better housing - you mention that the Tibetans don't do well competing in a Capitalist environment - so what possible rewards are the Han going for then? If there is no local financial environment and the Tibetans are dirt poor anyway so there is no money to be made from them, what else would attract the Han to go?

You can't simply "create" business where it didn't exist before without subsidies and Govt help anywhere on this planet, let alone Tibet.

Scottish culture and the gaelic language have definietly been lost. What now exists is a variation on the more general culture that exists across the UK. Interestingly, the Welsh (they lost their independence centuries before the Scots did) have kept their language and it is flourishing in Welsh schools and homes. I was even taught welsh when I lived there as a child but you won't go into Scotland and see signs in Gaelic or hear people conversing in Gaelic as you would hear Welsh in Wales.

Forgive the horrible colour scheme the designers chose - you'll find a little bit about the history of the wiping out of the Gaelic Language here. Might be worth viewing the page as "text only"