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Archives Nuclear Power in Space?; Real spaceships must use nuclear power. It's the only practical way of exploring and colonising space. Fission fragment, nuclear ...

View Poll Results: Should we use nuclear power in space?
Yes, let's go nuclear! 9 69.23%
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Old 08-11-05, 01:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
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idea Nuclear Power in Space?



Real spaceships must use nuclear power. It's the only practical way of exploring and colonising space. Fission fragment, nuclear salt water, gas core and other exotic reactor type engines are being researched for future missions in light of the Bush administrations new nuclear space initiative. But there is another option that was available to us generations ago and remains to this day the only engine affording both very high thrust and Isp. A single stage launcher which could reach Pluto and back inside of a year. A simple design that can even be scaled up to starship configurations.

The concept is known as Nuclear Pulse Rocketry and its feasibility was proven beyond the doubt of the top minds who worked on Project Orion for the 7 years it was financed by the airforce, army and NASA. The initial plan called for manned missions to Mars by 1965 and Saturn by 1970. Jerry Pournelle who was aquainted with the project leader Freeman Dyson is quoted as saying that a large permanent moon base could have been established in a single mission! Back in the 1960's they were working on fission pulse units to bomb around the solar system. Today we can entertain the option of thermonuclear fusion. While steady fusion may turn out to be a pipedream, the science of hydrogen bombs is well proven and developed. We can nuke our way to the stars if we want to. We can also colonise the solar system in style and that would be a nice prelude to serious star travel. Either that or sit on our hands and hope something better comes along.

Its already been 36 years since we went to the moon. Me? I'm tired of waiting. I don't believe anything remotely practical will come along that isn't nuclear. Technological advancement requires hands on engineering and competition. We didn't go from steam engines to Ferrari's on a drawing board! We have to use what we have and hope its a stepping stone to increasingly more impressive generations of vehicles. The alternative is to do nothing but wish for some perfect concept that may never materialise. Atleast not until the window of opportunity is lost. How long advanced civilisations capable of spaceflight endure for is a question open to much conjectural debate. Our societies are quite fragile really and our high technology requires a large specialised workforce to maintain it. We may even lose our lust for space. If there was ever enough determination to begin with.

The Hollywood fearmongers and military warmongers have given nuclear technology a well deserved bad name but we must remember that ALL technology is a two edged sword. Over 10,000 people die every year from coal burning and one in four kids now have asthma as a direct result of coal burning particles. In fact not many people realise that Uranium and Thorium exist in coal beds. It gets burned up with all the other nasty toxins and CO2 then pumped straight into the atmosphere. Ironically a coal plant produces much more radiation than a nuclear plant. Over one million people die every year from automobiles too. Nobody died last year from nuclear energy and an Orion launch would cause zero fatalities according to independant studies but ignorance is often stronger than reason. Especially in democracies where the masses vote according to which politician can put on the most sincere looking smile.

Radiation risk is still measured by the Linear Non-Threshold hypothesis. A theory dreamed up by some fool with absolutely no evidence whatsover to back up his daydream. It works like this: if 200 degrees temperature is enough to kill you then logically 20 degrees will kill 10% of your body. Right? Ofcourse not. It's utter garbage but thats how radiation risks and fatalities are calculated despite ever increasing evidence to the contrary.

Radiation Hormesis research has shown that low to medium doses of radiation are not only harmless and indeed beneficial but in fact 'essential' to life on earth.

So the only thing keeping us from the stars is probably our own stupidity.

We can't keep weapons out of space. Even a rocket doubles as a missile. We have to be realistic. We all want a united world but under what banner? What is the unifying goal that will bring about world peace? We could try conquering the universe. There is enough resources out there to go around. For quite some time in fact. Our kids deserve to have the opportunity.
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Old 08-11-05, 01:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Nuclear Power in Space?

Got to say you present a good case, I agree :smile: ,

Do you have any link's to more info on the subject it's pretty interesting. Especially the stuff about Pulse Rocketry to travel the stars.
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Old 08-11-05, 06:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thread Starter Re: Nuclear Power in Space?

Personal page that is free of popups.
http://www.projectorion.com

List of links to Orion. Not all working.
http://www.angelfire.com/stars2/proj...orionpage.html

The most popular article is
Project Orion - Its Life, Death and Possible Rebirth - Michael Flora.

If you are looking for a good book there is


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion
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Old 08-11-05, 06:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Nuclear Power in Space?

I think I read somewhere that magnetic pulses can get spaceships traveling faster than ever. The problem is the long wait until we can get them into space to prove it with large objects. Some small canned experiments have been made in space already.

If this is a true solution, it would be cheaper and easier to implement - no?
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Old 08-11-05, 06:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Nuclear Power in Space?

This is a really bad idea..if one of these were to explode we have no idea how it will react because there are an infinite number chemical compounds etc in space that we know nothing about.
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Old 08-11-05, 10:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thread Starter Re: Nuclear Power in Space?

That's the best thing about NPR. No atomic bomb has ever accidentally detonated. Even if it somehow did, this wouldn't trigger the others. They are very hard to detonate. It requires a special sequence of events.

Big fireworks are unreliable. One in ten launches fail for some reason. We've already lost two shuttles.

Outer space is composed of 1 or 2 atoms of hydrogen per square metre and a lot of radiation. We won't hurt it.

Magnetic pulses? Nukes create electromagnetic pulses. ICANN is a proposal for a magnetic conefinement field instead of a pusher. It would use anti-matter instead of fission for the fusion trigger.

The Case for Orion
SpaceDaily.com

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Old 08-12-05, 01:09 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Nuclear Power in Space?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Smith
That's the best thing about NPR. No atomic bomb has ever accidentally detonated. Even if it somehow did, this wouldn't trigger the others. They are very hard to detonate. It requires a special sequence of events.

Big fireworks are unreliable. One in ten launches fail for some reason. We've already lost two shuttles.

Outer space is composed of 1 or 2 atoms of hydrogen per square metre and a lot of radiation. We won't hurt it.

Magnetic pulses? Nukes create electromagnetic pulses. ICANN is a proposal for a magnetic conefinement field instead of a pusher. It would use anti-matter instead of fission for the fusion trigger.

The Case for Orion
SpaceDaily.com
As far as we know..but suppose one of them broke off and impacted into an asteroid, meteor, star, planet, etc.. who's composition is unknown and it exploded. It could be harmless or it could be disasterous. Besides, navigating space is virtually impossible..you'd have to pass through two asteroid belts, worry about meteor showers, amoung other things. I doubt a vessle would survive and the crew would be dead by the time they reached an unexplored area of space. Mars? LOL..we can barely land a rover on it let alone send a manned space craft.
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Old 08-12-05, 01:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Nuclear Power in Space?

they now have good scientific basis a space elevator. Interesting stuff...
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Old 08-12-05, 03:01 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thread Starter Re: Nuclear Power in Space?

Quote:
As far as we know..but suppose one of them broke off and impacted into an asteroid, meteor, star, planet, etc.. who's composition is unknown and it exploded.
Supposing it did?

Quote:
It could be harmless or it could be disasterous.
Why?

Quote:
Besides, navigating space is virtually impossible..
Us Apes have already worked that out. Roboted probes have already been sent as pathfinders.

Quote:
you'd have to pass through two asteroid belts, worry about meteor showers, amoung other things. I doubt a vessle would survive and the crew would be dead by the time they reached an unexplored area of space.
Life is not about elliminating all risk. It would definately be an adventure. We would want the best ship possible. Rugged, simple and heavy. A ground or sea launched Orion of about 100,000 tons without payload would open the door.

Quote:
Mars? LOL..we can barely land a rover on it let alone send a manned space craft.
I know. Remember when that little Tonker Toy got stuck in it's own landing shroud! Hilarious. I think it covered about a metre a day or something like that. The Nuclear Viking Landers operated for years rather than weeks. They weighed 600 kilo's. We just have to think bigger. Nuclear energy is a million times as powerful as unreliable unstable chemical propellants. More bang for the buck. No super-light alloys and other weight saving decisions necessary. An Orion could lift it's own mass in additional payload. Just one launch and we could have all the industrial infrastructure out there required for mining and refining space resources. Asteroid's, dead comet's, europa etc.

Quote:
they now have good scientific basis a space elevator. Interesting stuff...
Yep. That's the latest pipedream. Give it a hundred years or more and maybe it'll work. On Mars. Earth's gravity well is too big. What I do like about bootstrapping is the potential for stealing inertia from passing Oort cloud objects. Very long ropes required for something like that. A big heavy ship like an Orion would be good balast. Transplutonium planets, proto-stars, dwarfs and black holes would give great gravity assists but smaller stuff could be swung around spiderman style. Ofcourse we'd have to develop our nav tech.
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Old 08-12-05, 03:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Nuclear Power in Space?

Quote:
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Supposing it did?



Why?



Us Apes have already worked that out. Roboted probes have already been sent as pathfinders.



Life is not about elliminating all risk. It would definately be an adventure. We would want the best ship possible. Rugged, simple and heavy. A ground or sea launched Orion of about 100,000 tons without payload would open the door.



I know. Remember when that little Tonker Toy got stuck in it's own landing shroud! Hilarious. I think it covered about a metre a day or something like that. The Nuclear Viking Landers operated for years rather than weeks. They weighed 600 kilo's. We just have to think bigger. Nuclear energy is a million times as powerful as unreliable unstable chemical propellants. More bang for the buck. No super-light alloys and other weight saving decisions necessary. An Orion could lift it's own mass in additional payload. Just one launch and we could have all the industrial infrastructure out there required for mining and refining space resources. Asteroid's, dead comet's, europa etc.



Yep. That's the latest pipedream. Give it a hundred years or more and maybe it'll work. On Mars. Earth's gravity well is too big. What I do like about bootstrapping is the potential for stealing inertia from passing Oort cloud objects. Very long ropes required for something like that. A big heavy ship like an Orion would be good balast. Transplutonium planets, proto-stars, dwarfs and black holes would give great gravity assists but smaller stuff could be swung around spiderman style. Ofcourse we'd have to develop our nav tech.
I dare anyone to attempt to harnass the power of a black hole In my opinion a large observatory should have been built on the moon years ago. Since there's no atmosphere it would be perfect..saive the space debris, meteors, and comets . We have a great deal of technological advancement to make before venturing into space..heck it's difficult to keep the space station together let alone a space ship passing through the Kuiper belt.
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