McCain says he could lose over war issue

hrdman2luv · 02-25-08, 05:29 PM

I know there is already a thread about McCain and Iraq.........But I couldn't help but pass this one up. The title was too good to pass up.

I'm just wondering when I, a Ron Paul conservitive, can say Ron Paul TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!

By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer
30 minutes ago

ROCKY RIVER, Ohio - John McCain said Monday that to win the White House he must convince a war-weary country that U.S. policy in Iraq is succeeding. If he can't, "then I lose. I lose," the Republican said. He quickly backed off that remark.

"Let me not put it that stark," the likely GOP nominee told reporters on his campaign bus. "Let me just put it this way: Americans will judge my candidacy first and foremost on how they believe I can lead the county both from our economy and for national security. Obviously, Iraq will play a role in their judgment of my ability to handle national security."

"If I may, I'd like to retract 'I'll lose.' But I don't think there's any doubt that how they judge Iraq will have a direct relation to their judgment of me, my support of the surge," McCain added. "Clearly, I am tied to it to a large degree."

The five-year-old Iraq conflict already is emerging as a fault line in the general election, with the Arizona senator calling for the U.S. military to continue its mission while his Democratic opponents urge speedy withdrawal.

While most Republicans still back the war, many independents and Democrats don't. That presents a significant challenge for McCain and an opportunity for either Barack Obama or Hillary Rodham Clinton.

McCain acknowledged the war will be "a significant factor in how the American people judge my candidacy."

The lead Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, McCain has consistently backed the war although he's long criticized the way it was waged after the Saddam Hussein's fall. He was an original proponent of President Bush's troop-increase strategy, having called for more forces on the ground for several years. Last spring, McCain went all in on the war by embracing it as Bush took heat for boosting troop levels to quell violence.

"We can fail in Iraq," McCain said Monday in an Associated Press interview. But, he added: "I see a clear path to success in Iraq." He defined that as fewer casualties and Iraqi troops taking over security to allow U.S. forces to return home. "All of us want out of Iraq, the question is how do we want out of Iraq," he added.

YouTube - Congressman Ron Paul at the Fourth GOP Presidential Debate

John1234 · 02-25-08, 05:41 PM

He did not say anything that both his opponents and supporters didn't already know.

Until he got to the end.
It appears he is back peddling quite a bit on his stance and is adopting Romney's stance.
Previously he envisioned a permanent presence in Iraq. Possibly 100 years.
Now he says all Americans want out of Iraq, its just a matter of how we want out.
That was what Romney was saying when he used the bad word "Withdrawal".
I find it ironic that he now has the very position he was attacking Romney for.

I think he realized that he had to move more to the middle in order to have a chance.
Honestly i think this is the first good thing i ever heard from McCain.
But i bet it will create problems within his own conservative base.
And i do not think it speaks well for his character.
This is the second time that he has criticized a candidate and then done the same thing.

Zyphlin · 02-25-08, 06:08 PM

Hrd you are such a horrible, horrible example of a Ron Paul voter and the epitome of the type of voter that drove people away.

I don't like McCain, but this is a stand up thing. He's basically saying that he firmly believes in what he says about Iraq and the War on Terror, and truly believes its the right thing to do, while at the same time acknowledging that he feels that way depsite the fact it may cost him the Presidency.

While I may not agree completely with his politics, its good to see a candidate other than Paul sticking with his convictions, even if it isn't the "popular" thing or likely to win elections. The fact that yo'ure using it as just yet another empty thing to twist and spin to make Ron Paul look great and decry McCain is a joke.

John1234 · 02-25-08, 06:23 PM

Quote:

"All of us want out of Iraq, the question is how do we want out of Iraq," he added.

Zyphlin,

It does not bother you at all that he completely changed his position on Iraq within a casual conversation?

He just said the same thing as Romney just without the word Withdrawal.
Instead he used the word "out".

Previously his position was one of permanent occupation.

Zyphlin · 02-25-08, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1234

Zyphlin,

It does not bother you at all that he completely changed his position on Iraq within a casual conversation?

He just said the same thing as Romney just without the word Withdrawal.
Instead he used the word "out".

Previously his position was one of permanent occupation.

John, show me where he's stated he wanted a permanent occupation.

To my knowledge, McCain's stance has always been we will stay there as long as it takes to get a secure, stable, Iraq that allows us to leave there without it descending into chaos or causing America any further security threat int he near future. I've never heard him state that he would like to remain there forever and ever. (btw, having a military base there still counts as getting out in my, and the majority of peoples books, unless you think we've never ended WWII)

mikhail · 02-25-08, 06:32 PM

Mccain has been solid on this issue it is the main issue.It is unpopular from a mixture of those who dont really believe in the war on terror and those are annoyed it isnt an easy fight.Living in the UK my opinion is even less popular than in America however when i look at the evidence of the problem combined with future technolgies that will be come avalable i see Iraq as being extremely important.

John1234 · 02-25-08, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

John, show me where he's stated he wanted a permanent occupation.

To my knowledge, McCain's stance has always been we will stay there as long as it takes to get a secure, stable, Iraq that allows us to leave there without it descending into chaos or causing America any further security threat int he near future. I've never heard him state that he would like to remain there forever and ever. (btw, having a military base there still counts as getting out in my, and the majority of peoples books, unless you think we've never ended WWII)

Since it was Verbal i can not "show" you.
But it was in the main Republican debate. The same one when he insulted the leader of Russia, called us a global Empire, and referred to China as our enemy.
The same debate where he lied about Romney's words.
Romney said the same thing McCain is saying now, so why was it so terrible when Romney said it?

I watched in horror that night and felt i was watching one of those star trek movies where they end up in a twin evil universe.
Even the writers of science fiction could not of come up with something scarier than "Global Empire".
While Romney spoke of withdrawing once the job was done McCain referred to a 100 year occupation.
Remember the debate?

Also there is a huge difference in Japan and Iraq.
Keeping a base in Japan is fine with them. They don't even want us to leave at this point.
Keeping a base in Iraq guarantees violence and terrorist attacks and continues to provide fuel for terrorist organizations. If you look at the history and mentality of the Muslins this much is obvious.
So there is a huge difference between getting out and keeping a base there.
Why would we even want to leave a base there?

Btw is there a way to get a link to the full transcript of that debate?

Zyphlin · 02-25-08, 10:23 PM

I remember the debate. I can remember other Paul fans quote it entirely out of context and acting like they suddenly were devoid of brains and became the Paul equivilent of the "sheeple" they so preached against, taking his actual literal words instead of giving any credance to context, pass statements, and other such things.

I remember his comments about a 100 year being hyperbole to put across his belief that we will stay there no matter how long it takes to finish the job in his mind, and wouldn't pull us out of there earlier than that simply because it'd be political advantageous or other political reasons.

And I was speaking of Germany, where we still have bases, but your same arguement applies. However, your opinion based on your view of the matter does not necessarily make it the absolute truth on the matter 100%, nor necessarily represents his view.

I absolutely can't stand fellow Paul fans that go on about how deluded the american population is, how much people seem to be brainwashed, and yet are so brainwashed and dishonest themselves that they can't even go after a guy that CLEARLY has substantive issue problems on real things but instead have to purposefully misrepresent his words.

Its honestly the difference I think in Paul followers who are really just anti-war nuts that don't like democrats, and Paul fans who actually take the time to seriously read and understand the majority of his platform instead of just nodding ahead because he's their mesiah.

McCains stance has clearly been, since the beginning of this race, that we stay there until, in his mind and the mind of the generals, the job is done...aka Iraq is stable, and will remain stable in the near future when we leave, and that allows us to pull our combat troops out saftely. The only talk of extended stay there is in the same fashion we talk of having the military in all other parts of the world...which, while you may disagree with it, much like I do...you would have to literally be twisting common reality to say that doing such a thing would be "keeping troops in Iraq" in the sense of keeping them in there as part of the war.

hrdman2luv · 02-27-08, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

Hrd you are such a horrible, horrible example of a Ron Paul voter and the epitome of the type of voter that drove people away.

Well, If people would learn to do their own research (aka voting records, speeches, etc etc) on ALL the candiates, Then folks like me wouldn't get so upset to see their party going down hill and replaced by a full majority of the opposing party. And all over a friggin war what no reason to start, and no way to win. And then to see someone like John McCain (who is like Bush's older brother) continue to say the same things that cost them the congress just 2 years ago, is just perposterously stupid.

I don't like McCain, but this is a stand up thing. He's basically saying that he firmly believes in what he says about Iraq and the War on Terror, and truly believes its the right thing to do, while at the same time acknowledging that he feels that way depsite the fact it may cost him the Presidency.

What happened to believing in what your parties core values are? Not Bush's values. But the Conservative values. And what happened to representing the ones who voted you into the senate? What about what they want?

While I may not agree completely with his politics, its good to see a candidate other than Paul sticking with his convictions, even if it isn't the "popular" thing or likely to win elections. The fact that yo'ure using it as just yet another empty thing to twist and spin to make Ron Paul look great and decry McCain is a joke.

Let me say this my friend, that if your going to base who you vote for on what I, or any other person says thinks and does, instead of what a candidate says, thinks and does, then you need a little re-evaluation on what drives you.

I get my beliefs from the facts. Not what someone else says or does. I have had people doing everything in their power to convince me that the Hitlery is the vest choice for president. As a matter of fact, just the other night, one called me in support of Hitlery in Texas. I let him give me his shpill on Hillary. And then I asked him about Hillary's voting record on Illegals, bringing all the troops home, NAFTA and the economy. To make a long story short, I had the guy actually looking it Ron Paul.
And the lady from the Democrat headquarters in Athens Tx. Told me yesterday, that after looking into Ron Paul, that she will be writing in Ron Pauls name in the general election.

We all have our own ways of doing things. Thats what makes us individuals. Seperate from all others. If I have done anything, it is getting people to do their own research. Even if it's just to catch me in a lie about Ron Paul. Either way, I have gotten people to just look in his direction. God knows, the media is doing their best to do just the opposite.

Zyphlin · 02-27-08, 10:05 PM

Actually, I don't let others decide who I'm going to vote for....thus why I voted for Ron Paul despite the fact that I absolutely can not stand a about 75% of his supporters that I meet online, or in real life, and feel that its those very supporters that is a large reason why his movement may very likely never get to a much larger point.