At what point do you think the fetus becomes a baby? - Page 4

Reverend_Hellh0und · 02-28-08, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lachean

The cells involved in the biological process of birth are "alive" even before conception.

please expound on your point, as it stands I can not see the relevancy.

Lachean · 02-28-08, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

I think it's safe to say I have no idea, but conception is the only answer that makes sense to me, unless someone thinks God has a ray gun he fires into a woman's belly at some specified point in the pregnancy which inserts a soul into the baby.

Well if the ZEF has a soul at conception, what happens later in the development in the case of a split to become twins? Does the one soul become two? Or how about when two ZEF's combine to become one child, called a Chimera? How does that soul @ conception math work?

Lachean · 02-28-08, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

So when is it a life then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lachean

The cells involved in the biological process of birth are "alive" even before conception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

please expound on your point, as it stands I can not see the relevancy.

You asked at which point it is a life, well the sperm and egg are both examples of life. Life is a requirement at every stage of the development of a child, so it is in fact your question that is irrelevant.

The only relevant terms are IMO: "Person" "Human" and "Citizen."

Reverend_Hellh0und · 02-28-08, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lachean

You asked at which point it is a life, well the sperm and egg are both examples of life. Life is a requirement at every stage of the development of a child, so it is in fact your question that is irrelevant.

But are they examples of human life? What my question is getting at is that the pro-you can abort your baby crowd is basing that it is not a human life is a faith based assumption, not a science one.

Quote:

The only relevant terms are IMO: "Person" "Human" and "Citizen."

So when does the fetus become a Human then to you?

tecoyah · 02-28-08, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

If you are pro-choice you are pro-abortion. sugar coating the facts in a softer newspeak term means nothing.

You have an opinion of me based on my belief that I have no right to choose for someone else, and thats fine. You also call me Pro-Abortion regardless of my personal stance on the practice...thats not fine.

Really? Tell me if we are unsure as to when it becomes a "human life" aren't the pro-choice/pro-abortion crowd terminating something that is not "a life" based on faith? 35% polled think that life begins at conception, care to scientifically tackle that one?

It is indeed alive, as is any organism with cellular activity. We were not discussing the Life question in particular, until you just brought it into play. Life truly begins before conception, unless you wish to claim the egg, and sperm are dead.

How about you stop whining or go pound sand?

OK, I will happily leave this discussion after this post.

My posts are topical and opinionated. If you don't like em the problem is yours not mine. I insulted no one.

I suppose you are right, have fun.

galenrox · 02-28-08, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lachean

Well if the ZEF has a soul at conception, what happens later in the development in the case of a split to become twins? Does the one soul become two? Or how about when two ZEF's combine to become one child, called a Chimera? How does that soul @ conception math work?

Two very good questions, you know what my answer is though. As per our bodies we like to believe we all have individual souls, but it's all the same soul. You and I both have the same soul, so clearly it's not a big deal for twins to share the same soul or for that Chimera stuff that just blew my mind there's no issue because they had the same soul to begin with.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 02-28-08, 10:00 AM

I called those who call themselves pro-choice, pro abortion. The fact that you find that insulting demonstrates an inner distaste for the proccess that you know there is something wrong here. It is good. Whether you admit it or not.

And yes, the Good Reverend is always right.

Lachean · 02-28-08, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

But are they examples of human life? What my question is getting at is that the pro-you can abort your baby crowd is basing that it is not a human life is a faith based assumption, not a science one.

So when does the fetus become a Human then to you?

"A human" implies singular organism, and we all know (at least we all should know) that during development said singular organism can become two twins, or can join with another to become another singular organism.

I believe at every stage of development we are dealing with "human life." Each cell involved is a human cell, with human DNA. In fact the every cell in your body is a potential human being, heck we can turn your skin into stem cells these days with modern science.

So yes, I do believe all of these terms are a matter of biological science, and not faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

I called those who call themselves pro-choice, pro abortion. The fact that you find that insulting demonstrates an inner distaste for the proccess that you know there is something wrong here. It is good. Whether you admit it or not.

Wrong, one can be morally opposed to abortion, and still believe that it is a matter of liberty, and not morality. It is not discussed in our constitution, thus it is up to (or should be, **** you Roe v Wade) the states to decide if it should be allowed or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

And yes, the Good Reverend is always right.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 02-28-08, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lachean

"A human" implies singular organism, and we all know (at least we all should know) that during development said singular organism can become two twins, or can join with another to become another singular organism.

I believe at every stage of development we are dealing with "human life." Each cell involved is a human cell, with human DNA. In fact the every cell in your body is a potential human being, heck we can turn your skin into stem cells these days with modern science.

So yes, I do believe all of these terms are a matter of biological science, and not faith.

Are you pro-abortion(choice) and if so are you now admitting that you are killing a human? At what stage can twins form?

Marilyn Monroe · 02-28-08, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The silenced majority

The real question is: when does a fetus become an actual human being, (I mean down to the exact second - physiological indicators that can clearly be defined & determined) so that we as a people wpold be able to know and have a responsibility to protect that person's life?

That's the real question.

I'd bet all babies are not created equally down to the second. What about kids with birth defects, should they have the same consideration as people who will be normal?

I think your question is subjective. Some or many religious folks think it's always a life, at least now they do, they didn't always. Some non-religious probably feel this way too, but will as a rule give it some leeway. Some religious folks think it's when quickening occurs. Not all Christians believe abortion is wrong, as some don't think birth control is wrong. This to me is why it was allowed in the 70's. The Justices made a thoughtful decision on it. The Justices decided the mother has most of the rights. The decision had to be made, it's time had come.

The religious all the way down to earlier Popes didn't always feel it was a gift from God, at least not right away. I think if you believe in God you should believe it's a gift from Him to get pregnant, but that's just how I was brought up. I don't however feel that I have a right to decide what someone else does. Catholic's have a rule that if you don't know it's a sin you won't be punished for it by excommunication, but otherwise it is an excommunicable offense, or it used to be when I was young.